Doc is driving me nuts

[freshnthehouse]

derrenmatts said:

-Us not running even though its apparent that we can do more damage by pushing the tempo.

Do you really think we are a better team playing up tempo? Seeing that our best player(Pierce) plays his best in a half-court game, I'd say our best chance of winning comes from us playing to Pierce's strength. And I know most coaches will say when you are the more under-talented team, you slow it down. By slowing down the tempo, you limit the possessions for each team, and you dont allow the other team to run away with the game.

-Not using Rajon early on in the season, and now hardly using Telfair.

I dont understand this. Who do you take the minutes away from? Delonte? I saw nothing from Telfair that says that he should be playing ahead of Delonte.

[DERRENMATTS]

Do you really think we are a better team playing up tempo?

You don't? We get easier points, we play with more energy and excitement, and it provokes us to play on our toes.

Seeing that our best player(Pierce) plays his best in a half-court game, I'd say our best chance of winning comes from us playing to Pierce's strength.

If Ainge is drafting all these players who are better used in an uptempo game (Tony, Gerald, Rajon, Telfair, Ray--even guys like Jefferson, Powe and Gomes would benefit in the uptempo game), that's a signal that we need to be more uptempo. Plus, like CF has mentioned, this is not a concept we are trying to avoid. Doc and Ainge have stated that the uptempo game is going to be a part of our repetoire. Just because Pierce is better in the halfcourt offense doesn't mean we should halt our efforts to accomodate him. If anything, he needs to be the one trying to adjust to fit in with our uptempo game.


I dont understand this. Who do you take the minutes away from? Delonte? I saw nothing from Telfair that says that he should be playing ahead of Delonte.

I'm saying Doc should use Delonte as a 2 guard instead of a PG. Delonte's at his finest when he's taking jumpers and hitting three's. Let Rajon and Telfair play the minutes at PG for the most part and groom them.

Let me ask you this question--what are we playing for this season? Are we looking at a championship? Are we trying to go deep into the playoffs? Is it our goal to make it into the playoffs, even if we don't get out of the first round? Are we trying to claw our way to a .500 record?

We are 18 - 44, with 20 games remaining. We are 10.5 games out of the 8th spot in the east. Even if we go on a 20 game winning streak to end the season, we would need to pray that NY loses every other game just to make it to the playoffs.

In many people's eyes, Rajon is the PG of the future. Why not give him the starting job for the rest of the season and let him gain valuable playing time so that next year he will be that much more experienced? Even if he's not playing as well as Delonte (which I would argue), are we going anywhere this season that we need to be starting Delonte instead of Rajon? Why prolong the inevitable?

[cfoo]

See that's the debate Derren. Do we hand Rajon the starting job, or do we make him earn it? I kind of like that Doc is a prove it to me coach. I think in the long run it will be a good thing. It's not like Rajon is beign wasted here, and is being cast aside by Doc, just the fact Doc was talking about him says something, he's playing and he is getting valuable pt. Rondo wouldn't even be playing right now on a good team. I find it hard to see Rondo bitching because he isn't getting time. Prove it. Prove that you deserve to play. He's what 22 years old? I don't see the big deal of making him earn his job and wait a year.

[DERRENMATTS]

That's the thing--in my opinion, Rajon is outplaying Delonte as a PG, especially right now.

Defensively, offensively--you name it. Rajon is playing exciting basketball and getting the team moving.

This is not saying Delonte is playing poorly. This is just stating that Rajon is a better PG than Delonte.

[The Eye of the Q is upon you!]

I guess this Rajon - Delonte debate will continue long after the final whistle blows on April 18, 2007. The real debate is: are we a running team or more of a half-court team? We can be either at this point but with young players it is always better to speed the tempo up and then later on become a half court team. The real problem is: we have still have no clue what kind of team we want to be. And that one is on Danny and Doc.

Getting Durant or Oden will help. Getting Tony Allen back will help. But the team needs a complete buy in to the new coach's philosophy if this team is ever going to start winning again.

I suspect Pierce and Delonte West are the ones to get traded this summer if Danny can tap into expiring contracts and extra draft picks this year to put this team in the Rondo-Allen-GG-Durant-Jefferson championship era.

And yeah I want Rick Adelman or Mark Iavaroni the next Celtics HC if they are going to run. PJ Carlismo or George Karl to bring a defensive mindset in here.

[eja117]

Fair enough Derren but Delonte is outplaying Bassy AS A POINT GUARD and yet you want Bassy getting more mins.

First of all I'd say that this is kind of a moot point because now that Wally and TA are both hurt we can easily move Delonte over to two, move Bassy to backup point, and move Allan Ray back to the bench or NBADL as soon as Delonte gets over his concussion.

But in terms of next year I have to disagree with Derren in a couple ways. One thing is that I don't think Bassy deserves minutes over Delonte which means in my mind it's just a matter of Delonte playing 1rst string pg or 2nd. I wouldn't want him playing the 2 cause I'm not happy about a 6ft 3 sg, especially when our bigs aren't that big and neither is our swing TA. I'm also not happy with the idea of Delonte taking minutes from TA or GG or PP, and maybe not even Wally. I am perfectly fine with him taking mins from Bassy. In fact I'm even ok with Allan Ray taking mins from Bassy.

Next I would argue that Rondo isn't outplaying Delonte AT THE PG position. Next year I don't know who will be better. I know Rondo is better defensively in a lot of ways, (tons of steals), but Delonte isn't a slouch on defense either (I love his blocks. It must be so deflating for the other team to get blocked by the pg). I think Delonte brings just as much energy and determination as Rondo, in fact I think he brings as much as anyone on the team. Also you can say Rondo is a better playmaker, but for now Delonte is the better shooter. I also don't think the pace really slows down when Delonte is the pg. I don't think he hurts us at pg. Kandi hurts us at center. Delonte doesn't hurt as at pg. he may not make phenomenal steals or passes, but he makes phenomenal blocks and shots and makes other players play tougher. I think he's a better leader. I think for the rest of his career he's going to constantly beat people out and he'll constantly be told he's not a "true" pg and whatnot and people will just never learn.

If I were Doc I think I'd tell Rondo "As soon as you can shoot well you'll be the starting pg" and not say a lot else. I think Delonte has proven his value and Rondo has a ways to go even if he is actually better. I think Delonte gives us a better chance to win today, but i don't know about next year, and I think Bassy hasn't shown even a quarter of either Delonte or Rondo.

[cfoo]

See I disagree with Derren that Rondo is outplaying Delonte. Sometimes yes, but he is very inconsistant. He goes in stretches where he is awful.

[eja117]

Right and Delonte never does

[cfoo]

Delonte is a pretty consistant player.

[eja117]

Consistantly good too

[cfoo]

Well Delonte is a career 46% shooter and is averages 1.9 turnover per game over his career in like 30 mpg. That's pretty good for a pg in his 3rd year and consistant. Rondo is getting 20 mpg as a rookie, which is nothing to complain about, and is shooting it at 38% and is putting up 5 and 3 with 1.6 turnovers a game. I know numbers don't mean everything, but it's pretty clear that Delonte is putting up better #'s in the time he is out there.

This doesn't mean Rondo won't explode and won't outplay Delonte, but the numbers don't support that Rondo is outplaying him.

[eja117]

It seems we win more when Delonte starts as well. Like those overtime shots and whatnot

[cfoo]

Well winning is all relative this year. Anyways Rondo is starting at the point and West is the off guard this game I'm assuming for matchup purposes so that's nice.

[DERRENMATTS]

But look at what you are comparing CF. You are comparing shooting numbers and of course Delonte is going to win there. Rajon is not a good shooter. You are only making the point I'm trying to make that Delonte is a better SG.

But what trying to state is that Rajon is playing better at the PG position and should be starting instead of Delonte. In 30 mpg, Delonte is averaging 4.6 assists. In 19 mpg, Rajon is averaging 3.2 assists. And keep in mind that when Rajon is generally brought in, he comes in with the 2nd team and does not play the bulk of the time with the starters.

[cfoo]

Well numbers don't mean much Derren but if you average Rondo's numbers out over 30 mpg, he's averaging 7.8 ppg and 4.8 assists on 38% shooting. From what I have seen Rondo gets a lot of minutes with the starting players and West will play with the bench at times as well so I don't think that has anything to do with it. West did start off the year extremely slow remember and off the bench, and as a starter he's averaging like 15 and 6. The argument you do have is that Rondo doesn't get a chance to get into the flow of the game as much off the bench as a starter. Rondo's #'s are also much better as a starter. Ultimately #'s aside I'm just going by what I see during games and Rondo still seems inconsistant to me. I think he will be the starter ultimately.