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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 21, 2007 3:41:28 GMT -5
I just don't get it. What in the world goes on in Doc's head?
The best thing he did last night was to play Delonte at SG. The absolute worst thing he did was play Delonte at PG.
He started off both halves by playing a unit that just couldn't get anything going (Delonte, Pierce, Gomes, Scal, Jefferson). In both halves, this unit fell into big double digit deficits. This is when Delonte played PG.
In both halves, Doc had to finally resort to playing Rajon (and Telfair) at the Point (which obviously works, but gives Doc headaches apparently), and in both instances, the team fought back from big time double digit deficits to cut it down to less than 5.
The lineup that featured Delonte at PG was stagnant and fell into ruts. This lineup fell into a big hole, but the second unit (with Delonte playing SG) pulled us out of to go into the half only trailing by 4. Doc brings out the ineffective starting lineup again in the 3rd (big mistake), and doesn't have the clue to change what's not working until more than half the 3rd quarter has expired, by which time we are already down by 18. But lo and behold, here comes the second unit once again to save the day (again, Delonte moves over to SG where he's tons more effective as an offensive threat).
What gives?!!! Does he not see that Rajon (and Telfair) run the offense a heck of a lot better than Delonte?!!! Does he not see how much more effective Delonte is as a scorer? when he doesn't hold back shooting the ball?!!!
C'mon, Doc!!! This loss was solely on you. Both times we fell behind big time was because of the lineup you put on the floor. And both times we fought back to close the lead to under 5 was because of the lineup you put out on the floor? One works and one doesn't. Figure it out please!!
DELONTE BELONGS AT SG AND NOT AT THE POINT. LET THE REAL PG'S RUN THE TEAM AND LET DELONTE CONTINUE TO HURT TEAMS WITH HIS JUMPER!!
**Ok, sorry, I had to vent. I apologize for my rude and vocal post. We really should have won this game and I'm upset that we didn't.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 21, 2007 18:46:28 GMT -5
I guess the other head scratcher was starting Scalabrine over Perkins at Center. If you start Rondo and West then your backups become Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair and you better hope those two can score everytime down the court and will pass to each other because Scalabrine cannot anchor the middle against five opponents at the same time. Other matchup imbalances feature Ryan Gomes at SF or at PF with small lineups - this is a give or take situation.
Doc doesn't have much material to work in the 1st place with so his coaching margin of error is zero with Paul Pierce in the lineup and playing 40 minutes. But yeah, I agree with you that an opportunity to win last night was missed by the coach and that situation has occured about 7 or 8 times this year. That is unacceptable.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Feb 21, 2007 23:06:37 GMT -5
I think Delonte is a pg and a good one. I don't really udnerstand why you think that Derren. He's not a pure point but he does a better job most nights imo than anyone else on our roster. I really have 0 problem with Delonte playing the point. I'd like to see more of Rondo but he is very streaky sometimes. Some games he does a great job and really creates things but other games he really disapears and teams back off him and he can't buy a basket. I'd like to see the Celtics commit to Rondo and play him at least. It seems like some games they do and others they dont. Do I think Delonte should be our starting pg ultimately? Probably not, but to say he can't play the point ever is kind of ridiculous.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 22, 2007 4:27:54 GMT -5
If we didn't have Rajon or Telfair, then yes, Delonte at the Point makes sense. Last season, he made sense because we had Banks, Orien and Dickau--none of whom played better than Delonte. But this season, we have better PG's who can attack and create and its evident how much more effective they are at pushing the ball and initiating a quicker offense.
My point is Delonte is far more effective and valuable as a scoring option. Case in point is tonight's loss to the Suns. I firmly believe we could have won the game if Delonte had played more at the 2 instead of trying to play the Point. Even when Telfair or Rajon was on the court, Delonte would be the one bringing the ball up the floor. Delonte's shooting was hot and he helped string our many comeback attempts. I think he could have scored 25 pts tonight (rather than 17) and I think our offense wouldn't have gone into as many slumps if he was taking jumpers cause he was that hot. But there were stretches in which Delonte was on the floor but didn't even sniff at a shot attempt because he was too busy looking for teammates to set up. What he should have been doing was getting off his own shots because we needed it. His outside shooting is valuable. When he and Gomes were adding supplemantary firepower, we were head to head with the Suns. But we went into a rut in the 4th because Delonte stopped shooting.
We need Delonte's scoring, but he stops shooting when he's playing Point. I think its counter productive because he's a much better scorer than he is a playmaker, and we have playmaking PG's who aren't being allowed to create because Delonte's playing the Point.
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Post by meangreen on Feb 25, 2007 9:36:39 GMT -5
Hello every1, its been a looooooooong time since Ive last posted. In the time between Ive been watchin this team just absolutely go straight dwnhill4 1main reason that I can see and th and that's the coach. My first post here when I joined I recommeded that the Cs look 2recruit Billy Donavan to be the next coach of the team  . I don't think there's any reasonable Cs fans left that think that Doc doesn't ABSOLUTEY, POSITIVELY, have 2GO!!!!!!!! NO1 can watch this team and think that Doc isn't the MAIN reason y this team has become stagnant under Doc. I mean doesn any1 here really think that ANY improvement in ANY area can be attributed 2Doc?  The answers 2alllll of these questions has 2b a resounding NO!!! I stated in my 1st post the resons 4Billy 4coach in no particular order: 1.He knows the league, +area and the fans in boston havin played and coached in the area 2. He can relate w/our young players, I mean half of our team should after all STILL be playin college ball 3.The style he employs would be PERFECT 4what this team needs a uptempo style that puts defensive pressure on the opposition while @the same time forcing the their D 2make adjustments 2us instead of the other way 'round. W/our guards we should pressure the ball more often w/a press or trap 'cause we'd have Big Al, Perk, Powe, Kandi, Theo, etc 2help defend the tin. How many times can u watch Telfair or Rondo walk the ball up court? Hell didn't Telfair want out of Port. 'cause of THAT very style that Nate McMillan wanted 2play? 4.Donavan is obviously a successful coach having built a nice program in Fla, so there's confidence in him to be successful here as well. 5.Also he's goin 2b loosin a ton of players in Fla this yr 2the NBA, so itd'b a perfect time 2go after him w/the promise of the Cs gettin a top3 pk in this yrs draft. 6. Guys like Donavan are always lookin 4a challenge, he's a large ego, that's in check, but needs 2b challenged for growth, not necessarily stroked to grow. Doc HAS 2go so Ive made my bid 4who Id like 2c replace him, Id like 2hear from the rest of the Cs fans 1.To hear reasons Y Billy shouldn't be our next coach and 2.Who'd they like 2c replace Doc |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 26, 2007 2:29:38 GMT -5
Hey MeanGreen. Yes, I remember you mentioning Billy Donovan in your previous post, but I want you to further elaborate as to why you think Donovan is going to leave Florida and the college program (aside from him losing a bunch of key players and looking for new challenges). Are therer rumors about him wanting to test the NBA waters?
I've got a sour taste in my mouth from college coaches trying out the pro level, and not succeeding. Remember that Rick Pitino did a number on us Celtics fans, and I actually thought he was going to make a difference. Another experience I've gone through was recently with my Miami Dolphins, who gave then LSU head coach Nick Saban a shot at the NFL. Once again, I felt confident in him, but after 2 seasons (and a couple of seasons remaining on his contract), he ditched the team and organization to go back to the college level.
Billy Donovan is a really young coach without any previous head coaching experience prior to his stint with Florida. This concerns me.
I do like what he's implementing at FLA, with the uptempo game and strong emphasis on team defense--that's a winning combination.
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Post by meangreen on Feb 26, 2007 13:16:05 GMT -5
Yo DMatts good 2hear from u friend. Y would Donavan want 2leave Fla? He's already reached the pinnicle of his career @the college level. He's proven that he can take a college program and build it in2 a national powerhouse. I mean do u picture him stayin in Fla 10, 15, 20+yrs? EVENUTALLY he'll want 2go 2the pro's, its just a matter of the right situation w/the right team. There aren't any rumors that Ive heard 'bout Donavan wanting to go2 the pros, but Im hopin that that'll change w/these postings ;D. I know what u mean 'bout havin a bad taste in ur mouth still 'bout Pitino  . Im in the vast minority when I say that Pitino was a good coach coaching the wrong team, I mean, yeah he put that team 2gether. But I think he was tryin 2put a team more like the 1we have now 2gether, than the1 he did. I mean this team the way its constructed now fits his style of play, similar 2Donavans. We KNOW that Doc has 2go so assumin we don't get Pat Riely, Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich, or Phil Jackson who would u want? U want Larry Brown, Rick Adleman, Paul Silas, etc, u tell me? ALLLL of those coaches have yrs of experience, hell, Doc has experience 4that matter. When Doc was hired did any1 REALLY think that Doc was the coach 2turn us in2 of the the top tier teams in the league again, ESPECIALLY w/the way he left orlando. Donavan has played in the league, so he knows what the league is alll 'bout and the business of the game. Im not as concerned w/his lack of experience, I mean what this team needs is some new energy and enthusiasm, and a new vision 4the players. Donavan is young and that's a plus 4our young team as Ive stated b4, and you do agree that Donavan's style is just perfect 4this team. Unless you or any1 else can make an argument4 some1 else, I say Donavan is our man ;D. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 27, 2007 1:56:30 GMT -5
Well, I was in favor of Doc because I genuinely think he's good leader. He's articulate, he's a direct person, he can be tough, but yet he knows how to relate to people (his players). But looking at his track record, he's just not much of a head coach. Maybe he needs to go down to the college level for a while and learn how to coach better and then work his way back.
MeanGreen, I would love to get a coach like Donovan, a coach who can take a team and get them to be defensive minded, yet have the offensive firepower to entertain the crowd. Its just that I don't know how much faith I can have in a coach as young as Donovan, who barely has coaching experience. If he was doing this and having big time success for 10 years at the college ranks, then I'd be more willing to give him a chance. But with our situation, not having won a title in over 20 years, and fans losing confidence in this team by the hour, its scary to give a young coach with just a few years of coaching under his belt the reins to the team.
I really hope we can find a coach like Billy Donovan though. I really want to play that brand of basketball.
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Post by meangreen on Feb 27, 2007 15:55:16 GMT -5
Im glad u agree w/me DMatts ;D!! I posted the idea on the Cs message board on espn and so far I got Rick Aldeman as a choice . Now granted Donavan doesn't have any NBA coachin experience, but does a re-tred like Aldeman make u think this team is bound 4greatness? The only credentials that Aldeman possess over Donavan is that he's coached @the NBA level and has had some success. Aldeman coached a veteran team though, not a team still lookin 4its identity like this1. Plus Aldeman's teams weren't known 4its defense, but its offense. Donavan is the right choice 4allll of the reasons Ive named and Im still lookin 4a name that'll make me think otherwise. Well @least u think its a good idea, hopefully we can spread the word 'bout Donavan |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 27, 2007 21:59:35 GMT -5
I'm not too high on Adelman either. He's got the offensive thing going, but not known for making teams defensive minded.
I like what Donovan has done in Florida, but without a guarantee that he can translate his few years of coaching in the college ranks to the pros and have major success, I'm leary to put my hopes in him.
I like your enthusiasm though, MeanGreen. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about the team and how we can improve.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 1, 2007 7:59:18 GMT -5
I just don't get it. What in the world goes on in Doc's head? The best thing he did last night was to play Delonte at SG. The absolute worst thing he did was play Delonte at PG. He started off both halves by playing a unit that just couldn't get anything going (Delonte, Pierce, Gomes, Scal, Jefferson). In both halves, this unit fell into big double digit deficits. This is when Delonte played PG. In both halves, Doc had to finally resort to playing Rajon (and Telfair) at the Point (which obviously works, but gives Doc headaches apparently), and in both instances, the team fought back from big time double digit deficits to cut it down to less than 5. The lineup that featured Delonte at PG was stagnant and fell into ruts. This lineup fell into a big hole, but the second unit (with Delonte playing SG) pulled us out of to go into the half only trailing by 4. Doc brings out the ineffective starting lineup again in the 3rd (big mistake), and doesn't have the clue to change what's not working until more than half the 3rd quarter has expired, by which time we are already down by 18. But lo and behold, here comes the second unit once again to save the day (again, Delonte moves over to SG where he's tons more effective as an offensive threat). What gives?!!! Does he not see that Rajon (and Telfair) run the offense a heck of a lot better than Delonte?!!! Does he not see how much more effective Delonte is as a scorer? when he doesn't hold back shooting the ball?!!! C'mon, Doc!!! This loss was solely on you. Both times we fell behind big time was because of the lineup you put on the floor. And both times we fought back to close the lead to under 5 was because of the lineup you put out on the floor? One works and one doesn't. Figure it out please!! DELONTE BELONGS AT SG AND NOT AT THE POINT. LET THE REAL PG'S RUN THE TEAM AND LET DELONTE CONTINUE TO HURT TEAMS WITH HIS JUMPER!! **Ok, sorry, I had to vent. I apologize for my rude and vocal post. We really should have won this game and I'm upset that we didn't. Lemme tell you something Derran - A PG is always instructed to slow the pace down and look for his shot or pass it to the best player on the team and stand back and watch. That was my strategy in Atlanta, pass it Dominique Wilkens and let him score. We almost beat Boston in 1988 but Larry F Bird was Larry F Bird. Delonte West executes my game plan to perfection and he is my starting PG, get used to it. 60 loss seasons are the now the norm here in Boston and I want to be known as the losingest coach in NBA history. |
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 1, 2007 8:03:32 GMT -5
I guess the other head scratcher was starting Scalabrine over Perkins at Center. If you start Rondo and West then your backups become Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair and you better hope those two can score everytime down the court and will pass to each other because Scalabrine cannot anchor the middle against five opponents at the same time. Other matchup imbalances feature Ryan Gomes at SF or at PF with small lineups - this is a give or take situation. Doc doesn't have much material to work in the 1st place with so his coaching margin of error is zero with Paul Pierce in the lineup and playing 40 minutes. But yeah, I agree with you that an opportunity to win last night was missed by the coach and that situation has occured about 7 or 8 times this year. That is unacceptable. Who is this lemming who is using my name? The corporate goal is to lose 60 games a year and lie to the fans about how we are young and talented and about to turn the corner. My goal is keep getting younger and younger and trade off the productive players for overpaid and oft injured junkers of the NBA to give those a teenage basketball prodigies the tough lessons of losing to prepare them for the real world. |
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Mar 1, 2007 11:05:40 GMT -5
Doc is truly driving me nuts. He starts Scal at the 4 last night and plays him 37 minutes between center and power forward and Scal comes up with 0 rebounds... count them... 0. How can that be? Yes he hustles and yes he can hit an occasional 3, but you can't give that many minutes and start someone at PF or C who doesn't rebound!!!!!! In the meantime, Doc puts Powe into the Utah game and he produces (as we all knew he would because he has done good things whenever he has been on the floor. And Doc comes out and says how impressed he was by Powe (was this a surprise to him?  ?) and how Powe would be getting a lot more minutes because of his intensity and he gives us what we need. He starts him the next game. Nothing like going from a gazillion DNP's to starter in nothing flat. And plays him 24 minutes and the kid does great. Next game he starts again and plays 3 minutes and now is back to a DNP. Bassy comes into the Houston game and pretty much turns it around. He played good defense (Doc's previous knock on him) and handled the point very well. Doc gushes about how well he played. And how does he reward this improvement??? He benches him for the entire next game. In the meantime Doc starts West at the Point and moves him back and forth between the 1 and 2 and is it any wonder his game is suffering? He doesn't know when to shoot and when to handle the ball. He brings the ball up when Rondo is in and doesn't take shots when he should. West would be so much better if Doc would just play him at the 2 and use Rondo (who is our best PG) and Telfair at the point and stop messing with all of their heads. Does Doc not realize what he is doing to these kids? He is messing with their heads and destroying their confidence and has done it all season. My biggest nightmare is that Danny will keep Doc as a coach next season and all of these talented young players will be ruined by bad coaching and be sent to other teams where they will all become all stars. It would be a total waste to get Oden if we keep Doc as a coach as he will have him out on the arc shooting 3 pointers. |
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 1, 2007 11:32:48 GMT -5
Doc is truly driving me nuts. He starts Scal at the 4 last night and plays him 37 minutes between center and power forward and Scal comes up with 0 rebounds... count them... 0. How can that be? Yes he hustles and yes he can hit an occasional 3, but you can't give that many minutes and start someone at PF or C who doesn't rebound!!!!!! In the meantime, Doc puts Powe into the Utah game and he produces (as we all knew he would because he has done good things whenever he has been on the floor. And Doc comes out and says how impressed he was by Powe (was this a surprise to him? ?) and how Powe would be getting a lot more minutes because of his intensity and he gives us what we need. He starts him the next game. Nothing like going from a gazillion DNP's to starter in nothing flat. And plays him 24 minutes and the kid does great. Next game he starts again and plays 3 minutes and now is back to a DNP. Bassy comes into the Houston game and pretty much turns it around. He played good defense (Doc's previous knock on him) and handled the point very well. Doc gushes about how well he played. And how does he reward this improvement??? He benches him for the entire next game. In the meantime Doc starts West at the Point and moves him back and forth between the 1 and 2 and is it any wonder his game is suffering? He doesn't know when to shoot and when to handle the ball. He brings the ball up when Rondo is in and doesn't take shots when he should. West would be so much better if Doc would just play him at the 2 and use Rondo (who is our best PG) and Telfair at the point and stop messing with all of their heads. Does Doc not realize what he is doing to these kids? He is messing with their heads and destroying their confidence and has done it all season. My biggest nightmare is that Danny will keep Doc as a coach next season and all of these talented young players will be ruined by bad coaching and be sent to other teams where they will all become all stars. It would be a total waste to get Oden if we keep Doc as a coach as he will have him out on the arc shooting 3 pointers. Who says Danny wants Oden or Durant, I want Acie Law IV to pair with Delonte West next year. I understand the history of Acie's in Boston (remember Acie Earl). We are here to make a profit, not win games, Remeber? |
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Post by eja117 on Mar 5, 2007 16:15:30 GMT -5
I don't know about you but I find Doc one of the hardest coaches ever to grade. How do you grade out a guy who has had a 5 and 4 game winning streak in a season with one of the youngest teams in the league, but also had a franchise record losing streak?
In the mean time he has cleary developed at least some of the players. TA was breaking out.. Al J broke out. Delonte is better in most ways. He definitely gave time to Gomes and Perk. GG improved. And say what you want but not tons of coaches would give play time to a 2nd rounder like Powe.
But I also feel like the only reason they broke out was cause of injuries to vets that wouldn't have made us a winning team anyway.
Part of me thinks we should keep him cause it might hurt player's development to have a new coach, but part of me thinks he just shouldn't be coach. I don't know. I think let him go, but only if there is a better coach out there and I'm not sure there is. I definitely think Doc will coach again if we let him go. I can't say that about some other coaches we have had or could have
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. I don't think there's any reasonable Cs fans left that think that Doc doesn't ABSOLUTEY, POSITIVELY, have 2GO!!!!!!!! NO1 can watch this team and think that Doc isn't the MAIN reason y this team has become stagnant under Doc. I mean doesn any1 here really think that ANY improvement in ANY area can be attributed 2Doc? 
The answers 2alllll of these questions has 2b a resounding NO!!! I stated in my 1st post the resons 4Billy 4coach in no particular order: 1.He knows the league, +area and the fans in boston havin played and coached in the area 2. He can relate w/our young players, I mean half of our team should after all STILL be playin college ball 3.The style he employs would be PERFECT 4what this team needs a uptempo style that puts defensive pressure on the opposition while @the same time forcing the their D 2make adjustments 2us instead of the other way 'round. W/our guards we should pressure the ball more often w/a press or trap 'cause we'd have Big Al, Perk, Powe, Kandi, Theo, etc 2help defend the tin. How many times can u watch Telfair or Rondo walk the ball up court? Hell didn't Telfair want out of Port. 'cause of THAT very style that Nate McMillan wanted 2play? 
. Im in the vast minority when I say that Pitino was a good coach coaching the wrong team, I mean, yeah he put that team 2gether. But I think he was tryin 2put a team more like the 1we have now 2gether, than the1 he did. I mean this team the way its constructed now fits his style of play, similar 2Donavans. We KNOW that Doc has 2go so assumin we don't get Pat Riely, Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich, or Phil Jackson who would u want? U want Larry Brown, Rick Adleman, Paul Silas, etc, u tell me? ALLLL of those coaches have yrs of experience, hell, Doc has experience 4that matter. When Doc was hired did any1 REALLY think that Doc was the coach 2turn us in2 of the the top tier teams in the league again, ESPECIALLY w/the way he left orlando. Donavan has played in the league, so he knows what the league is alll 'bout and the business of the game. Im not as concerned w/his lack of experience, I mean what this team needs is some new energy and enthusiasm, and a new vision 4the players. Donavan is young and that's a plus 4our young team as Ive stated b4, and you do agree that Donavan's style is just perfect 4this team. Unless you or any1 else can make an argument4 some1 else, I say Donavan is our man ;D. 
?) and how Powe would be getting a lot more minutes because of his intensity and he gives us what we need. He starts him the next game. Nothing like going from a gazillion DNP's to starter in nothing flat. And plays him 24 minutes and the kid does great. Next game he starts again and plays 3 minutes and now is back to a DNP. 
