Doc is driving me nuts

[DERRENMATTS]

Doc has some positives, like you mentioned, but the list goes on and on about the things that drive us nuts.

I don't know what Gomes did to deserve losing his spot to Scalabrine. Gomes has been one of our best role players, as he continually gives us a handful of timely 18 foot jumpers.

Doc has not allowed this team to run, like he has promised. Delonte is putting up fine numbers lately, and in all honesty, he is not hurting us while playing the Point--but he's not making us a whole lot better from the PG spot. Delonte is at his finest when he's putting up points, so why ask him to sacrifice that part of his game to concentrate on running the team? We have 2 young PG's who have the potential to be the PG's we need to be an uptempo team, but yet, both of them hardly see any time these days. This drives me nuts.

[eja117]

The team is playing phenomenal, but to be fair it's against the Sonics of the world, not the Suns or Spurs.
I kinda want Doc back next year and this is why.
First of all nobody on this planet could have ever led this team to a winning season much less playoffs with so many players hurt.
Also Doc's job this season was to develop our young players and teach them the game. Are they learning? Are the better? Let's review

Al - went from decent backup to one of the best bigs in the NBA

West - improved for the second year in a row. Has to be taken seriously at all times now. he's not just a pesky guy with hustle any more. People should stop saying he's not a true pg or he's better off at the two until people beat him out and until he stops outplaying so many true pgs in this league

Rondo- yes he improved.

Gomes - improved and settled into a nice supporting role. Got beat out but not cause he regressed, which is exactly what some of us wanted.

Scala- Not a young guy, but beleive it or not he improved. He couldn't help it with all those minutes and starts he was getting

Powe - say what you like but Doc did give him enough mins to show he could play here. Tons of coaches wouldn't have given a 2nd rounder the time of day

Perk - regressed but fought thru it. There was no way Doc could pull a miracle here. Despite pain he still gives worthwhile mins out there

TA - went from backup to star level briefly before getting hurt so Doc did his job here too

GG - went from completely lost to putting it together sometimes and being valuable at times at least. Doc did his job here too

Bassy- regressed, but it's not like Doc didn't give him enough opportunity. Plus last nite he looked like a real live NBA pg

Ray - Doc used him when he needed him and got good stuff out of him. A keeper at a minimum salary for at least another year

The other players had the following outcomes
Wally - needs to be traded. We don't need him and his injuries any more. We should try to give him to some team that could use him for a push into the finals like Miami or Detroit. Get a distant future 1rst rounder and hope it becomes valuable

PP - He's fine

Kandi - The contract was perfect and he even tends to look like a real live NBA center when he plays.

There. Proof positive Doc has done his job believe it or not.

And most important I think a coach change could absolutely cripple some of these young guys who need continuity like GG and Rondo and Al

[FLCeltsFan]

Some very good points Eja... As much as I have been frustrated with Doc, you may have a point. But I think Al's improvement has been due to Clifford Ray and not Doc. Doc doesn't have a clue how to use bigs but as long as we have Ray, we will be ok. I wish Doc would bring in a good X and O coach similar to what Bird did in Indy and that would help him immensely as this is the weakest part of his coaching. I have posted this on Loy's Place.

[Roadrunner]

I thought Doc has done an admirable job w/ the club this year. Pitino, or OB would have resigned when Pierce got hurt.

[eja117]

I'm a little nervous Clifford Ray could leave if Doc leaves and also you still have to give Doc credit for the other players improving then.

[cfoo]

I'm with EJA. The main thing that bugs me about Doc is his roster shuffling at times when he doesn't need to. This team really hasn't been able to establish any chemistry because of youth, injuries and that. But as far as bringing these young players along and doing it the right way, he is doing just that imo. Watching Telfair and Green these past few games is testiment to Doc imo. He has really been getting on these guys about their defense imo.

I honestly wouldn't mind bringing back Doc for a couple more years at all. Maybe he just hasn't had a chance to show his x's and o's yet becuase we are still in the stages of developing these young guys and establishing a rotation. I'm not saying that is his strength but who knows. I also wouldn't be surprised if Doc gets canned 2 years from now once these young guys are ready and we bring in an x's and o's guy.

I personally t hink Doc gets a year extension this summer because I think Danny wants to keep things in tact and it's not fair to Doc to have him as a lame duck coach next year. It might make sense to let him go after next year but I think that is what is going to happen.

[eja117]

If we don't extend him maybe a year and give him one more year it kinda sends a bad message to other coaches. It says you can come here and improve the players, but if you have a bad season no matter what, even if it's due to horrid injury or youth or even both you're out. It would make coaches think we're unreasonable and want miracles. If you want miracles you have to pay a top coach top dollar. There are plenty of coaches that would have done worse for a lot more money

[meangreen]

Please allow me 2rebut Eja117's case 4keepin Doc on as coach. I don't know this gent personally and any criticism I have of his opinions is not a personal attack on him ;D. EVERYTHIN I have 2say is strictly based on the views of the team and what I thin should happen. Havin said that I think its CRAZY 2even consider keepin Doc on as coach and none of the reasons Eja gives I think are even valid and I can't believe that any1 else would find them valid either . His whole premise as its stated here is that the team has improved under Doc, but its it because of Doc or despite him? Are these players developing under Docs guidance or is it 'cause they're really players after all? Many thought Big Al could play and would do so if he got a chance 2play and hone his game which he's done nicely lately. I mean w/time in the league guys'll get better or they won't not necessarily 'cause of the coach, but just 'cause they can play. AI can play, but look @the coaches he's had, he's not better or flourishin 'cause of them, he can play already. Big Al dedicated himself this offeseason and its payin off, so Im not goin 2just credit Doc w/his deveoplment. The question is 2fold: Is this team playing the best it can w/Doc@the helm and are these improvements BECAUSE of Doc?
Eja gives Doc credit 4NOT playin Powe more, or just enough 2show he can play 2impove Scal's ppg avg by .5, HUH ? Y should Scal EVER start over Powe? Look @the way our Gs play west, telfair, rondo, and TA should be playin a much more uptempo gm. How many times have you seen Rondo go coast2coast so fast that no1 can defend him? How many times has he shown that he can strip the ball from opposin Gs? Correct me if Im wrong, but didn't Telfair find his way in the dog house in Port. 'cause of the walk the ball up the floor style of the coach? Yet rarely do we pressure the ball on D, make the other team wrk the ball up the floor. Any1 recall us pushin the ball on O, an outlet 2the Gs pushin the ball either by pass preferably or dribble, w/the bigs fillin the lanes 4easy baskets? How many times do we play a team that has a guy that gets hot and we make no adjustments 2take the ball out of his hands and make some1 else beat us or he doubles the guy and leaves guys who CAN SHOOT wide open? He coaches like the guy who buys .com stock right b4 the bottom falls out. What's up w/his subs, when its time 2sub D4O, he puts in GG as a DEFENDER. Granted no1 could've lead this team 2a winnin record, so that's the reason 2KEEP DOC?
Ive lobbied 4Billy Donavan as coach 4reasons Ive posted in other threads here and other Cs sites&boards. Ive heard other names as Rick Aldeman, Paul Westphal, etc. WHO should be out next coach is another debate, but 2think that changin coaches will cripple this team 'cause Doc leaves is CRAZY.

[eja117]

Not the first time I've been called nuts. Heck that was tame

[cfoo]

I'm still with EJa where I think doc although clueless at times, is doing this team a lot of good in the long run, vs holding these allstar rookies back, like some people think. Rondo, Jefferson, Green and all these guys will be starting soon enough and they will have earned it and will have their games in check. It took Jimmy Johnson half a season before he figured out that he should start Emmitt Smith. Was Jimmy stupid? Maybe, but he knew what he was doing. Doc is not Jimmy Johnson, but Rajon Rondo is not emmitt Smith. He's an inexperienced rookie with some glaring flaws to his game right now. I think when this is all said and done people will realize we just needed to be patient.

[eja117]

I just think continuity is way more important for our young guys right now than trying to hit a home run on coaching. There's no coach that will be the magic fixer. I'd rather go for slow but steady real progress which is exactly what we got this year. Red Auerbach is not walking thru that door. Maybe his spirit does all day, but not him in a coach form

[freshnthehouse]

I don't know what to think of the C's coaching situation. I dont think that Doc is a great coach, but I also don't think that he's nearly as bad as most C's fan make him out to be. And I DEFINATELY don't think that this team is a play-off caliber team that is only being held back by Doc's coaching. Like Ive said before: There is no coach on earth that could get anything out of this team. Maybe in a few years, but not now.

[cfoo]

That's just it EJA. There aren't many coaches if any that could make thsi team good this year. Doc might not be the greatest coach in teh world but he isn't hurting us and is actually doing this team good imo.

[DERRENMATTS]

Nice post, MeanGreen. I like your writing style.

I like Doc as a person. I think he's a real player's coach in the way he can reach them on their level. But its just some of his coaching decisions that have got me upset.

-Us not running even though its apparent that we can do more damage by pushing the tempo.

-Not using Rajon early on in the season, and now hardly using Telfair.

-Playing Delonte at the Point even though Delonte is better used as a shooter/scorer, and when we have much better playmakers

-not using Leon Powe, even though the kid produces when he's on the court

There are more, but these are the ones off the top of my head.

[cfoo]

I agree Derren but these are all things that you might not be able to say next year.

-The C's do run at times. And I hear Doc yelling run, push the ball during games. It's not always that simple. I think the ultimate goal is still for this to be a running team and to push the tempo and I hear guys talk after games and they always emphasize pushing the tempo. IT's just not being done the way we would all like. I tend to think we are going to run more and more as we implement Rondo and TElfair.

- Rondo will be starting eventually. I personally believe he isn't ready to be the night in night out starter. Let's remember when GP was here, everyone was calling for Delonte to be the starter, because GP sucked worse than Delonte, and that change was made and GP was let go.

-Delonte will either be traded or will be the pg/sg off the bench ultimately

-Leon Powe will be utilized and he has been to some extent. He has Jefferson, Perkins, Gomes, Pierce, Scal to contend with and he is the odd man out EArlier in the year Powe was really rough around the edges offensively imo, and has come along nicely and is starting to get more time recently.

The Celtics are a young team Derren, and most of these complaints about Doc that you have are regarding rookie players not contributing the wya you would like. The C's are still in the process of working these guys in and establishing a rotation. It's a process. The C's are still in the very early stages of what we are ultimately going to see. How many rookies come into the league and dont sit and watch their first year? How many rookies come in and claim major minutes and start game in and game out their first year? Not many. You usually see a player take off in his second year or later.