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Post by eja117 on Oct 18, 2005 16:49:06 GMT -5
touche Dmatts. I'm exhalting you for that. You have outwitted me or at least battled me to a respectable draw. i will revise here for a moment While I admit Al J has tremendous talent and that he may be making progress I think it is not entirely clear he will be great. Last year I thought it was clear, now i'm not sure. Another thing I'm not sure I agree with is the idea that Al J is more talented than Reed. is he more talented in defense? Another thing you can't teach is hustle and health (don't underestimate health) and it appears Gomes and Reed have more. As much as I loved Al js play last year he made it look a little too easy. I don't see the effort or fire in him that I see in Perk, Reed, or Gomes. I even see more fire in Banks sometimes. I don't think you can lead a team if you aren't the one that seems most concerned about scoring or defending even if you fill up the score sheet. It can't be like "Well he doesn't try as hard, but he gets more points and is more talented so he's the leader." I think people accused Tim Duncan of this for a while. I want a guy to be annoyed and upset when the team loses or when he misses a shot and right now I'd say you can see bball matters more to Reed and Perk than Al j. maybe you can say Al j is more level headed or something but I am just not totally sold on him, whereas I am very happy currently with Reed and Gomes. i guess you are saying Al J is Shaq to Reed's Horace Grant as a best case realistic scenario I might say Reed and the other players I mentioned might Ben Wallace to Al Js Antonio McDyess or Joe Smith
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Post by Celtic17 on Oct 18, 2005 16:55:10 GMT -5
Where's my exalt for the love?
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Post by eja117 on Oct 18, 2005 17:04:11 GMT -5
Where's D and my exhalts for the entertainment? And I can only exalt once per hour
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Post by Celtic17 on Oct 18, 2005 17:14:44 GMT -5
j/k EJA
;D
I just like to see your take on the C's.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 18, 2005 17:20:10 GMT -5
AlJeff is injured. He hasnt gotten outplayed. He isn't playing BECAUSE HE IS HURT. There is a big difference. Michael Jordan missed 70+ games his second year. Good thing they didnt assume he regressed and trade him. Reed at his absolute best will be a slightly better Adrian Griffin. Gomes will be a slightly better corliss williamson at his best. Any GM with a brain would pass up 100 Reeds to get 1 Al Jefferson. And if you dont like players that are hurt, trading AlJeff for LIvingston makes no sense. Hes hurt all the time.
And for the last time people, stop assuming what happens in summer league makes a huge difference.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 18, 2005 18:10:35 GMT -5
Al J hasn't gotten outplayed. just outworked and outhustled. Michael Jordan had played in the ACC for 3 years, was a player of the year, the 3rd pick in the draft, the NBA rookie of the year, played another year in the NBA and was a prodigy. So he was a rookie of the year with 4 years of not getting hurt before he missed 70 games. Al J doesn't have that history and has been hurt twice in one year while his body is still growing. great players don't get outplayed in the summer league. Livingston plays a postion we need help at, was a higher pick for a reason, and is a position it is very hard to find someone good at. Corliss Williamson and Adrian Griffin didn't play nearly as well as Gomes or Reed their first year or two out of college. Nobody called either of those guys "best defender on the team (well maybe Griffin)" or "steal of the draft". if that's how we feel about them then we should probably trade them seeing as how they are behind Pierce, Ricky D, wonderboy GG and TA talentwise. No point having them behind those guys. calling Reed and Gomes Corliss or Adrian griffin is as misguided as calling GG the next McGrady or Al J the next Jordan. Hey does anyone know if Jordan got outplayed in his first summer leagues or did he play like it didn't make a huge difference. I mean if it doesn't make a huge difference then I guess AL J was right to dog it.
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Post by Celtic17 on Oct 18, 2005 18:40:48 GMT -5
Jordan had a very low FG% to start. That was his weak point.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 18, 2005 18:48:01 GMT -5
The only high schooler to pro mentionable in the same sentence as Jordan is Lebron
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Post by Celtic17 on Oct 18, 2005 19:14:16 GMT -5
The only high schooler to pro mentionable in the same sentence as Jordan is Lebron Jordan went to NC, if I remember.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 18, 2005 19:54:32 GMT -5
Another thing I'm not sure I agree with is the idea that Al J is more talented than Reed. is he more talented in defense?
Possibly, if he was a few inches shorter. You must realize that not many 6'10" players can guard wing players. Justin Reed is a 6'7" wing player, thus allowing him to guard players his size. I don't think Reed will be nearly as effective going up against bigger PF's like Rasheed Walace. But likewise, though Jefferson is very quick and agile for a big man, his foot coordination would be lacking if he had to guard the likes of Paul Pierce and Vince Carter. But Jefferson guarding PF's is a matchup I like. You'll just have to wait and see on that one.
Another thing you can't teach is hustle and health (don't underestimate health) and it appears Gomes and Reed have more. As much as I loved Al js play last year he made it look a little too easy.
Don't forget that Jefferson was a lost kid out there. I think Walker coming back to Boston had its positives because he apparently taught Jefferson how to play with some swagger. Referring back to the playoff series with Indiana, Jefferson was instrumental in helping the team make a big comeback in Game 1, and you could see him taking it strong and aggressively, with fists pumping. And when he missed an easy shot while getting fouled, he announced his frustration publically because he knew he could have had an And 1.
It'll come around more. Jefferson is a hard worker and a hustler. Have you seen how ferociously he goes after rebounds? He rips down loose balls quicker than I see most big men. And defensively, toward the end of the season, he appeared to be looking to tear some heads off. He had a couple of nice blocked shots against Jermaine O'Neal, who happened to be eating Raef and Walker up in the post. Jefferson's speed and instincts for the ball was too much for the injured O'Neal.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 18, 2005 21:12:37 GMT -5
I just dont understand how reed and gomes have outworked and outhustled al jefferson. gomes has played 3 pre-season games. redd barely played at all last year. Id like to watch these guys get significant minutes in games that actually count before Id say that they are outplaying anyone. Never once last year did i think that aljeff was dogging it last year. And Im not going to blame the guy for getting a sprained ankle. they happen.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Oct 18, 2005 23:51:40 GMT -5
what't he purpose of this discussion ?
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Post by mev17 on Oct 19, 2005 1:54:11 GMT -5
I just dont understand how reed and gomes have outworked and outhustled al jefferson. gomes has played 3 pre-season games. redd barely played at all last year. Id like to watch these guys get significant minutes in games that actually count before Id say that they are outplaying anyone. Never once last year did i think that aljeff was dogging it last year. And Im not going to blame the guy for getting a sprained ankle. they happen. I agree 100%. It would be horribly reactionary to dump a talented 6-10 power forward, who despite being in his first year out of high school (and a small, rural one at that) played in the all-rookie game and lead the team in scoring, and as Derren pointed out earlier was effective in the playoffs vs Indiana, just because he has a mild ankle sprain and has missed three preseason games. And as to his summer league performance, as I stated earlier, Perkins did not play well in summer league but has been impressive in the preseason, so I see no reason why Al J won't pick up where he left off last year. Both our young men hit the weight room hard before summer league and moved like they were in quick sand as a result, and they were working on new aspects to their game -- for Al it was shooting with his left hand and working on a jump shot, so it should be no surprise he did not score like normal. Like Fresh says, I'd like to see Reed and Gomes shine in actual games that count before I exalt them over Al J. Wing players who hustle are one thing, a 6-10 PF with the talent to become a perennial all-star is in a whole other class. You can find guys like Reed and Gomes much easier than you can find guys like Al J.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 19, 2005 2:36:34 GMT -5
I guess we are all surprised with your comments there about Jefferson, Eja. Didn't see that one coming.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 19, 2005 6:43:48 GMT -5
My only defense is that I think the guy sweats most is hustling more. When Reed and Gomes play they sweat a lot. They go after rebounds like they would punch their mother in the teeth for it and I didn't see that with the poor lost Al J last year. I also hate hate hate players that get hurt. It's right up there with players that get arrested. Other than that i guess my comments are surprising, but I think you have to realise I'm not suggesting trading him for someone who isn't good or anything.
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