Top 3 players we should stay away from

[DERRENMATTS]

Lot of 4 year players end up not going as high as they could have if they'd have left earlier. Lot of GM's scrutnize a players game and the longer he stays in college, the more the player is scrutinized. They don't feel like the potential is that great if a player has to stay 4 years in college. Usually, if a player is very talented, he's already in the NBA by the time he's 20 years old. If a player stays all 4 years in college, they feel that they've already seen the player reach his ceiling.

This can be to the benefit of teams picking late in the round because they have a chance to grab quality proven players who's game are already more developed than these young high schoolers.

[eja117]

To me scrutiny = dominance. Did they dominate college? High school? Europe? the Olympics? The pre draft camp and workouts? If they didn't dominate and all they have is potential well then Disco Stu, Stay Away. Not today.

[DERRENMATTS]

Well, if they were dominant, they'd be taken way early in the draft. But looking at guys like Josh Howard, who was a fabulous player for Wake but spurned a lot of scouts because he didn't have the potential of guys like Carmelo had coming out--these kind of players can be very welcome additions to add roster depth.

[eja117]

I guess Josh Howard is what I mean. The guy was excellent at the college level, so why take an unproven player over him? There's no reason.
Here's the question for you. Who will be the better player? Darko or Josh Howard? I think there's a distinct possibility it will be Josh Howard, although I won't be surprised if it's Darko. I admit Darko had and still has potential, but there was no reason to be drafting him over Carmelo or Dwayne Wade.

[DERRENMATTS]

I have been a Darko supporter and I will remain on his side. I see a lot of good things coming out of this guy. Like you said, Darko has the potential, but as of right now, Josh Howard is the proven commodity.

The only time you take a potential player over a proven, and most like safe, player is if you have a strong incling that the player who has the potential will make good on his potential. A good way to feel if he will is by his work ethics. Lot of players have the potential. But if they aren't willing to work on it, they're a good chance to be busts. Big Al is a player who puts in the time and effort to get better. So is Perkins. Ainge must have sensed this quality in them, which is why he took the gamble.

I sure would like Josh Howard on this team. But if I sense that Darko is a hard worker who will put in the effort to improve himself continually, then I'd take him over Josh Howard.

[Roadrunner]

My belief is that Howard was a solid player in college, but a tweener for the NBA due to his size. Great pick by the Mavs.

As for Wade, I thought the stigma of him was that he was always hurt, which is why the top lottery teams stayed away.

[meltinjohn]

Justin Reed is an example of a 3-4 yr player who won't amount to much. Its kinda like they are afraid to jump into the league early. Nowadays its that way but years back, all 4 yr guys ended up being the best in the game. Minds change, generations change. Now staying 4 yrs mans different reasons. Like Garcia. That could be why he slid to 30 or early 2nd. Jameer Nelson perhaps going to 20? As good as he can be, they saw how high his ceiling was. They saw he wouldn't be a star but a good pg nonetheless but just not a starlike scorer. Its like his ceiling was met.
As far as Darko, Joe is a genius. That 2nd pick was given to them practically. Think about it. An old Otis Thorpe the grizzlies risked a pick for. Joe D felt that pick was a gimmie plus the fact he could mold Darko however under their defensive team he planned to build moreso than a Chris Bosh who is a proven scorer whod want minutes right away like a typical situation where a high lottery team is a loser. These rookies expect time but the pistons just luckily got that pick. Joe knew it would cause problems because there was no place for 'Melo or Wade other than the bench. At the time when Okur was there and Big Ben as frontcourt players, they didn't wanna ruin something even to pass up on Bosh. But I can see why he passed up on Carmelo or Wade. They are too selfish for Dumars system.

[Roadrunner]

I think the #2 pick was hand-me down from another GM in the Detroit organization.

Players,like Reed maybe, perhaps they are better off to go to college for 4 years vs. high school players, or 1 year college players, like Young or Cook who declare early, and are like journey men in the NBA.

[meltinjohn]

Cook isn't a journeyman right now. Young who?

[eja117]

I think he means either Lenny Cook or Omar Cook, both of which aren't really in the league (Omar does well in the NBDL) and Korleon Young who was last seen hanging out with Elvis.
I understand to a certain extent looking at a 4 yr player and thinking they see their ceiling, but Bosh and Carmelo were freshmen nowhere near their ceiling. Wade was a junior. Wade would be doing just fine in Detroit right now either backing up the guards or starting ahead of someone, then that someone would be backing up at two positions. Rip could be a swingman and Chancey could possibly play both guard positions. Bosh would be getting quality minutes in the frontcourt, Carmelo could be a swingman. They are all quality players. You could call them all selfish but if you are going to be a 13th man like Darko you better not be selfish. Darko may be a good player but so far he is the Sam Bowie of his generation.

[DERRENMATTS]

Good points, Eja.

But just wait a bit more on Darko. That Sam Bowie comparison---ouch ;D

Now that Larry Brown is leaving, Darko may actually get to see what its like playing in an NBA game with more than 1 minute remaining in the game. Sounds like Nate McMillan is going to be their next coach. I think Larry Brown likes to use big men who can score away from the basket, ala Rasheed Wallace, Antoinio McDyess, Mehmet Okur from a couple of years ago, etc. Darko is an inside player, which may be one of the reasons why Brown fails to use him at all.

[eja117]

The jury is still out on Darko, but still. If he becomes as good as say Bosh then what's the point? They could have had Bosh these two years contributing. I can't see Larry taking a good player and not playing him at all just cause. A good player finds his way to the court. I just have a hard time seeing a guy go from 1 minute and 0 points a game to being a player worthy of #2 overall. If Darko had been the last pick in the draft and he was getting these kinds of stats he'd be out of the league in a year, but cause he was a #2 he'll get another shot. Here's a thought. He gets paid more than Dwayne Wade, Carmelo, and Bosh.

[DERRENMATTS]

You got me there, Eja. I ain't got nothing to back up my view of things in this situation. The guys picked directly behind him (Carmelo, Wade, Bosh) are all proving themselves and Darko still gets no playing time. So until he actually starts doing anything, I'll just sit and wait quietly.

But looking back at that draft, that was one heck of a draft. Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, and Bosh all in the top 5---wow.

[meltinjohn]

Darko is on the verge of getting 2 rings, Lebron hasn't even made the playoffs. Anthony lost in 2 first rounds. Wades team lost to Darkos. So in a way, Darko may be sitting doing nothing but hes steps ahead of those other guys because he has nearly two rings. Definitely 2 finals appearances. Darko I think is making all those other good players jealous haha. This will make him a better player also. He is an inside player but I also heard he can shoot. I see him like I see Laettner when he was on the hawks/pistons. A good player. I do not see him as a Sam Bowie.
And on the Cooks, I meant Brian. But Omar makes sense because hes bounced around.

[Roadrunner]

My comments were on Omar Cook (former St John's PG) in the NBDL, and K Young (which declared early vs. heading to Kansas).