Helping Rondo

[birdie]

Notably, Boston's point guard Rajon Rondo (sore lower back) was out of action. Eventually, I think there's going to be a move made to get help behind Rondo at the point. Having Eddie House play the position takes away from focusing on his strength, which is shooting.

Some suggest the Clippers' Sam Cassell could be that man. That kind of point guard upgrade would seem to be a good thing. He's already played with Garnett in Minnesota and Allen in Milwaukee.

by HoopsHype

[DERRENMATTS]

Knowing Doc, it wouldn't be too long before Cassel slides into the starting lineup, moving ahead of Rondo on the depth chart, whether he deserves it or not.

But I wouldn't be opposed to Cassel--our window of opportunity is wide open now, so we need to strike while we have daylight.

[runrondo]

I've been on the wagon to get Cassel ever since i first heard of the possibility but i would be afraid Doc would move him ahead of Rondo...Still, he would probably be the only PG i would want to sign since he's the only one that really makes us better(He may be injury prone though)...

[cfoo]

I still disagree and I'm taking it to my grave. I think we are fine with Rondo, TA, House nad Pruitt. the pg play has been fine. House is still allowed to slide over because we have 3 other guards besides himself actually 4 in ray allen who can handle the ball at times. Our offense isn't centered around the pg and it shouldn't be. Even if we were to get Cassell which would be fine I dont think he would start unless he was clearly outplaying rondo. I still don't understand this false pretense that doc only plays vets. He's started a lineup including Rondo and Perk all year.. He's always played the young guys when they are doign what they should for the most part. TA, Baby, etc. are all getting minutes so I don't understand that rational at all. Getting Cassell would b e fine. Still don't think it's a glaring need or a need at all really. Getting cassell would be more of an added player that can help us.

[eddietours]

Cassel should know that at this stage in his career he can't be demanding to start that would hurt rondo confidence

[runrondo]

cf00 said:

I still disagree and I'm taking it to my grave. I think we are fine with Rondo, TA, House nad Pruitt. the pg play has been fine. House is still allowed to slide over because we have 3 other guards besides himself actually 4 in ray allen who can handle the ball at times. Our offense isn't centered around the pg and it shouldn't be. Even if we were to get Cassell which would be fine I dont think he would start unless he was clearly outplaying rondo. I still don't understand this false pretense that doc only plays vets. He's started a lineup including Rondo and Perk all year.. He's always played the young guys when they are doign what they should for the most part. TA, Baby, etc. are all getting minutes so I don't understand that rational at all. Getting Cassell would b e fine. Still don't think it's a glaring need or a need at all really. Getting cassell would be more of an added player that can help us.

Doc is only playing/starting rookies because he HAS to..Who else is he gonna put in? Scalabrine? We don't have a PG behind Rondo so that's why he started Rondo and we don't have a big center behind Perkins(Pollard doesn't even play) so he's forced to start Perkins..I'm not saying Rondo or Perk don't deserve to start because they do but i believe if we had players at the PG and C spot they definitely wouldn't be starting..Doc took forever to play Rondo, Big Al, Perk, Gerald, Powe, Pruitt(unless he has too like last game), and even Big Baby at first...History shows Doc is always stubborn to play the young guys and only caves in when we either suck as a team or have injuries which is how we find out their good even though we knew they were when they were on the bench..

Even this year we see Doc is reluctant to use Perk even though he NEEDS to be out there..Why make Posey play a mismatch at the PF? Why make Garnett play center when he doesn't favor playing it? Why weaken interior defense when we clearly need it most at the end of games?

Doc is KNOWN for favoring small ball and being very conservative with the young guy's minutes...


And I agree, I do think we're fine at the PG with Rondo and PRUITT..seriously i don't think i'm the only one that believes he can play solidly even now..but I was just saying Cassel is the ONLY guy out there possible to get that i would consider(No to Patyon, Best, any other old NBA player)...I don't consider House a PG or Tony or Ray even though they can do most of the ball handling..Like it or not we do need to focus on the PG on offense because we need someone to create(House can't, Ray can't, Tony is learning, Pruitt seems to be able to find open men) and penetrate..House is an instant offense with the threes and can be streaky..Ray is Ray and shouldn't have to be the main ball handler ever since he doesn't need to play with the second unit or else we become a bunch of three points shooters chucking threes with House, Ray, and Posey...When House shoulders the PG load for long periods of time you see how awkward the offense feels(it looks good at first but then falters) cause House is basically limited past his amazing shooting..Tony is the one(when 100%) that may come out and surprise us all and become a playmaker and CONSISTENT but not yet..But yes, i'm very optimistic with Pruitt, maybe too optimistic..I dont' care, i was very optimistic with Rondo and even Perk at one point two years ago and they look good now

[cfoo]

If you notice when I defend Doc, I back it up with actual things that are going on and what he actually does. People say he would do this or that, but I have not heard one example of doc actually doing these things. I just find it odd is all. when has doc ever played a vet over a young player that is playing better? Just wondering.... I won't be surprised if i hear crickets and get no response either because he has never done these things. You say doc is "known" for these things...... When has he ever done these things?

I agree with the small ball part, but a lot of coaches do that. It's not that out of the ordinary to go with a defensive player like Posey to finish games. I'd love to see more of perk and I've said this, and evne Baby. But both those guys also have to do a better job when they are in there. Perk hasn't exactly been a picture of perfection out there finishing around the rim. He needs to get better and he will play those minutes.

It's normal bash the coach garbage because that's what people do. I listen to c17 bash TA over the phone because he doesn't like him because he looks like a thug, but he has no rational rhyme or reason for wanting to trade him and i knwo he doesn't. It just gets tiring reading peoples bias when you have no rational reason to back it up. I read the same stuff about francona and beliceck and it just is pointless. IT's doc's fault. Doc's an idiot. Maybe it's not Doc? We are 31-6. Why would doc ever do thoes things? He doesn't do those things that's the point. There's also nothing wrong with small ball in situations. It works. It quickens the pace adn creates a swarm effect and I like it in situations. Perk will also play and he has. his minutes have increased each year and would hae last year if he wasn't injured.

[kofanis0880]

Joe Forte.

[runrondo]

Yes, and with any other coach in the NBA we'd be 31-6 or somewhere around there..I'm still holding my thoughts on him until he shows he's capable of making adjustments in a heated playoff series...Also, he's not doing it now because there's no opportunity but he's already done it in the past that's my evidence: Rondo(He played TELFAIR OVER HIM, Telfair does seem to have some potential but c'mon who thought he was better than Rondo at that time), and how can you forget Doc playing Blount for lots of minutes while Perk and Al sat on the bench even though Blount didn't give two sh**s about playing or getting rebounds? While Perk was a rebounding machine(even that early on) and Al was just waiting to shine, but Doc still gave Blount majority of the minutes and only played Perk/Al sparingly...Only reason Al and Perk then got a chance was because we got rid of Blount....


When does small ball work when your coasting to the victory? Only time small ball should be used is if you need a comeback or are losing, or it's in the middle of the game..Not when you are securing a lead..That's my beef with the small ball of Doc Rivers..Like you said, it works in situations but Doc doesn't know which obviously..

[cfoo]

Popovich does the same thing in SA. Why do you think they have so many small forwards and wing players like Bowen and Finley and Barry etc..? Popovich is one of teh best coaches around and uses small ball and matches up. Utah, Phoenix, etc, etc all go small and use small ball. These are some of the best coaches around. Bloutn was traded and was just there filling time until Jefferson and Perk were ready. Blount would not be playing ahead of those guys......... He was because they were rookies out of highschool, and was filling time their rookie year out of highschool which was not out of the norm at all. Jefferson and Perk were not even close to being ready to get major mintues at that point in time. You throw them in there at that age. How many rookies that age get major minutes? They were getting more miutes than normal even.

If you look at the normal progression of nba players every young player on this team under doc and has played under doc, has had a normal progression and has actually gotten more minutes and time then a lot of teams give young players.

[runrondo]

It wasn't their rookie year..It was Al's 2nd year(after he already showed great promise) and Perk's third year and he sucked at offense(still does anyway) but was a big body grabbing every rebound(which Blount didn't do)..And when is getting more minutes than normal bad? Is their a limitation to a young guy's minutes? Al had so much hype his rookie year that we all expected he get major minutes the second year but yeah we can go on and on and i can counter what you say and you can counter what i say but we get no where..Plus, i would think it fair to label me a doc "hater" so i guess i'm bias in my thought, still i believe Doc is an AVERAGE coach and with him at the head we will never win the championship because i don't believe he's capable of making the changes and not getting outcoached in a big playoff series( Has Doc ever won a playoff series?)..But yeah, you make good points but they just don't stick with me and yes i know we're 31-6 but that will mean nothing if we don't win it all or go pretty far...

And the small ball..If we face the suns, utah, phoenix it's alright to go to small ball because they don't HAVE ACTUAL INSIDE PRESENCES or real Centers..Phoenix has Amare but that's it for size..They don't have a true center, same with Utah..But for example, the Wizards(who were playing tough and ganging the boards with Haywood and others) small ball is stupid..But the worse part was i acepted him doing it the first game cause i didn't expect the Wizards to be so tough but then he comes out the second game gets a lead in the 4th and DOES THE SAME THING and we lose again with the small ball...Only in certain situations and Doc isn't picking the right ones..

[cfoo]

Phil Jackson does the same thing with the lakers. All those teams have all these sf hybrid role players so they can go small and defend better.

Al J was hurt his 2nd year.......... Perk was hurt last year. Both players got a lot of minutes and they do. Al, Perk, Rondo, West, Gomes, TA, Baby, have all gotten minutes under doc and major minutes. Even Telfair got time and so did Gerald even though they were far from ready.

[runrondo]

Phil's got Bynum in the game though..We have KG playing Center and lets just say he isn't that effective at the Center position with no one to help him push around the others...

You know what's funny..We're discussing our disagreements but we actually agree on the fact that we think we're kind of all set with PG situation behind Rondo(which is the topic of the thread)

[cfoo]

Garnett is the best rebounder in the league and a better rebounder than bynum. you dont see jackson going with kwame and bynum at the end of games too often. If Kwame was playing better he might but he's not there yet. We have posey to come in and perk is still learning and it makes sense to sit perk at times depending on matchups. Jackson uses Mihm and Kwame like we use perk and pollard pretty much.

[runrondo]

Garnett's showing this year that by himself he is not the best rebounder in the game...With Perk boxing out he's a lot better and his problem is his defensive intesity...With Perk he can contest drives, shots, go for blocks and know Perk's got the middle locked down..Playing small ball, he's not a true center and therefore when he steps up he leaves the interior exposed or leaves himself in a bad position..Another problem with the small ball(agaisnt the Wiz again)

Without Rondo so i understand why he couldn't be playing but we were up by 10 with 4 minutes to go..Play small ball great and we have Ray and House out together(along with Posey) That seems more like a lineup that needs some quick points or offense..wouldn't it have been smarter(safer) to go with TA instead of House therefore slowing some of the penetration and 3's by Stevenson?..
I guess Doc is trying to finish them off by putting a scoring lineup but then why does he slow the pace down knowing that with House and perimeter shooters our half court offense will run pretty poorly?..