cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 17:20:02 GMT -5
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 18:28:42 GMT -5
That's our core imo plus TA and Big Baby. Everyone else is expendable to add a decent big man and a veteran pg. I've been thinking that Ilgauskis could be a very good option we might want to look at. Camby is still there. There are a few guys that we might not expect that could come here and make us a very good team this year and in the future. I would not sacrifice our core at this point and I don't want to even give up Green any mroe.
Say we can muster a lineup that looks like this or similar
PG-Rondo, Snow
SG-Allen, Allen
SF-Pierce, Green
PF-Jefferson, Big Baby
C-Perkins, Ilgauskis
that would leave pruitt or ray, powe or gomes, and scal as the 11th, 12th and 13th man. Powe would probably back up Jefferson until Davis is more seasoned and they would probably split time. Trade Ratliff, Gomes, Telfair and picks most likely. Cleveland is looking to unload Ilgauskis. Same goes for Camby. I tend to think Ilgauskis could be a cheaper option as far as trade value if we can work a 3 way trade. I'm just using him as an example but that is the type of trade we should be looking at. Teams that are looking to open up salary to improve their roster, we can take on some of that salary right now for probably fairly cheap. I think that team has a shot to go to the finals in the next 2 years which win or lose would create revenue, and an attraction for players to come here, without sacrificing the youth movement.. Wyc needs to open up his wallet.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 4, 2007 19:17:18 GMT -5
I like that you are looking to upgrade the team, CF, but I'd sway you away from thinking about Big Z. He's beyond his prime, and though he can still play decently a few more years, he's on the downward side of his career. He's too slow and flat footed, and isn't much of a factor on the boards or on defense anymore. And for certain, I don't want Eric Snow here. There's no other PG in the NBA that I dislike watching more. If Ainge really wants a veteran PG, I hope he goes for Brevin Knight--though even this I'm afraid of, cause Doc might use him too much.
We do need to upgrade our talent level more to reach the next level--that being the top 4 in the East. At the top of their games, Jefferson, Gerald, and Rajon are going to be special players. Jefferson can be an All-Star as early as this season, if he touches the ball enough on offense. If he can improve upon the second half of last season, when he was practically a double double machine, he's certain to be one of the top PF's in the East. Another offseason of hard work on his conditioning, and his determination to get better under Clifford Ray's tutelage, Jefferson is sure to be an even better player this year.
Gerald Green is not ready to step into the starting lineup yet, but be patient because that day will come. He took steps in his development last season as he became a better scorer (coming off of screens, and hitting open three pointers). His confidence started to show in some games, but its still not there yet. He could become a factor off the bench this season, as long as his ball handling has improved this summer. His decision making still shows how young he is, and I hope he overcomes this soon.
Rajon Rondo is an electric player, and used in the right way, he could be one of the top PG's in the east (I'd say top 6 in the entire NBA if he reaches his ceiling). The problem is, Doc Rivers may prevent him from reaching this level. Doc's system doesn't really call for a playmaking PG because a lot of the time, PG's in his system only pass the ball of to the high post. Doc's system doesn't incorporate many pick and rolls with the Points, or use the PG's creativity. And so far, we haven't been an uptempo team--another one of Rajon's strengths. If we really want to be contenders, Doc will need to utilize our best player's strengths. Utilize Jefferson's and Gerald's strengths in the halfcourt offense, and utilize Rajon's strenghts by letting him create for his teammates.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 19:23:58 GMT -5
I'm just using those guys as examples. I agree Brevin Knight and Camby are the better options. I'm just trying to fill those spots with players who might be available and just laying a blueprint. The thing is we might not get our first choice with the players we have to trade, why Ilgauskis and Snow were good examples I thought.
I've been reading up on the cap of late and I'm just trying ot understand what Ainge is doing. One thing I don't understand is why we signed Scalabrine to that contract. That deal handcuffs us in ways that I dont understand why Ainge signed him. It makes no sense or rationale whatsoever. He is just filler we could potentially use in a trade but he is worthless and is just eating at the cap where we could use that money elsewhere. Ainge had to have his white guy I guess. i can understand if he was brought here to be a teacher and a motivator and a guy in the lockerroom I guess.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 19:35:32 GMT -5
The thing with Ilgauskis is he is actually younger than camby and has been surprisingly healthy later in his career. Plus he would bring playoff experience from a team that just went to the finals. I wouldn't necessarily say he's a bad option. Perk and Ilgauskis could be a good combo for us and a definate upgrade. I'm not saying he is perfect and doesn't have weaknesses but he would be a roleplayer for us. He would probably come cheaper than Camby as well. It's not like we'd be trading a lot for him and it's not like he's expected to be the final piece like Vin Baker was. He would be a roleplayer. He's not a drunk like Baker was either. The difference is when we were looking to make a run we had Pierce and Walker and nothing else. This way we have pierce, allen and a good young nucleus to go with Ilgauskis. It's different and it could get us pretty far.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 4, 2007 19:48:28 GMT -5
Funny thing about Brian Scalabrine is that he is a good player. When he finally started to play the way he's capable of, he looked like a really good piece of the puzzle.
He is what he is--a hustling and versatile bench player. He's fairly mobile, even with his girth, and he uses his mobility to track down rebounds (on both boards) and manuever around the court. And at one point, he was nailing his three pointers in a hot streak, and you could really see his value then. As long as he's being used as the 9th ~ 12th player on the roster, he'll be fine.
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Post by clem on Jul 4, 2007 20:15:04 GMT -5
What would we have to give up to get AK from Utah?What has been said in the papers and on the internet is that Jerry Sloan want's him gone.It sounds like as far as Sloans concerned There is no way he will coach him.If that is true might we be able to get him with out giving up a front line player?Would they consider a Deal involving Theo/Telfair in there final year.Gomes and a number 1 a couple of number2's and some money?Are they in any way desperate to move him?
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 4, 2007 20:48:51 GMT -5
I think having Kirilenko will boost our defensive output, but where do we put him? He's a SF, but we have Pierce there.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 21:07:24 GMT -5
we could play him at PF and JEfferson at Center with Perk off the bench. It wouldn't be bad. The thing with AK is his contract is monsterous, and he is injury prone, but if we could get him cheap it might make some sense. im not sure how he fits or if he is the best fit that we can get thats the thing.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 4, 2007 21:11:05 GMT -5
Hmmm... interesting thought putting Kirilenko at PF and sliding Jefferson at C. But if you think about it carefully, it won't work. Jefferson, being our star frontcourt player, will be guarding the weaker opposing frontcourt player. That would mean there will be times when Kirilenko will have to guard Centers. He'll already be at a size disadvantage playing against PF's--imagine him going up against guys who are 7 feet?
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 21:17:56 GMT -5
I agree pretty much. He is a player that could impact our defense but I dont see how he fits. We would have some strange lineups which would fit with Doc at least. Who else is out there? I've been trying to think of players that might come cheap where we dont have to give up our core, and it's difficult to find those guys. We could just hang onto Ratliff and Telfair and hope for the best, but I doubt taht is going to happen.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 4, 2007 22:28:26 GMT -5
Things would be so much easier if Ratliff was healthy and could offer his shot blocking. He really impacted his game with his ability to block and alter shots.
I still have hopes for Telfair. Though Rajon offers a whole lot more, Telfair has that moxie about him that attracts me.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 4, 2007 23:58:39 GMT -5
Cleveland Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
7-3 C from Lithuania (Foreign)
11.9 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 27.4 minutes
Eric Snow
6-3 PG from Michigan State
4.2 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 23.5 minutes
Incoming
Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
2.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 21.5 minutes
Sebastian Telfair
6-0 PG from Abraham Lincoln (HS)
6.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.8 apg in 20.3 minutes
Ryan Gomes
6-7 PF from Providence
12.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 31.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +4.6 ppg, +0.5 rpg, and -1.2 apg.
Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
2.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 21.5 minutes
Sebastian Telfair
6-0 PG from Abraham Lincoln (HS)
6.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.8 apg in 20.3 minutes
Ryan Gomes
6-7 PF from Providence
12.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 31.1 minutes
Incoming
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
7-3 C from Lithuania (Foreign)
11.9 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 27.4 minutes
Eric Snow
6-3 PG from Michigan State
4.2 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 23.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -4.6 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and +1.2 apg.
Successful Scenario
Due to Cleveland and Boston being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Cleveland and Boston had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
This trade does work anyways via realgm. It might be enticing to cleveland because they get a young pg to go with Lebron, and they clear cap room to get a big name free agent next year. We arent going to be able to do that regardless. We throw in a #1 pick and I bet cleveland does this. I dont know. I kind of like it. Z and Snow would be roleplayers for us which would ok with me. I bet we could go to the eastern conference finals and perhaps the finals with that team. Snow's contract runs out after next year, but we'd be able to extend Jefferson. we might have to pay a tax for a year. Getting Allen and Ilgauskis this offseason would be a coup for us, considering all we gave up was the 5th pick and change and didnt give up any of our core and wouldnt have to in the future either, considering the way pierce, allen and z's contracts are set up.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 5, 2007 0:31:15 GMT -5
Sorry brother, I'm passing on this trade. Not interested in losing either Ryan Gomes or Sebastian Telfair for Eric Snow of Big Z.
I'm curious to see which one of Gomes, Powe, and Big Baby will be here in 3 years. I think all 3 are going to be good role players, but there's not enough room to keep all 3 PFs.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 5, 2007 0:44:51 GMT -5
well that's the point. im not as high on telfair and gomes i guess. we need a veteran pg to back up rondo imo. plus we'd stll have ray and pruitt so snow will basically be what he's always been a filler player who can come in and doesnt hurt you and can run the offense. and we dont need gomes, powe, and big baby. gomes has the most value right now, and i like powe and big baby just as much if not better anyways. i figure if we can get a solid center its worth it. maybe we can do better, but if we can i'd like to know. i dont see us doing much better than that for telfair and gomes basically. and like i said the way the contracts are set up we can keep rondo, green, jefferson, perk, etc for their careers. Anyways I'm just pulling that out of my butt. Z does have issues but we need a center and he is one that could come fairly cheap. The chances of this happening are another story. I'm just trying to think of ways where we can get a center and a pg and stay under the cap for cheap without giving up anyone of real value. Ilgauskis has been one of the better centers around whether he's calcifying or not. He's been pretty healthy. I think in the eastern conference we'd be as good as if not better than most teams. Who would have a better roster than us? the bulls are the only team. maybe there is a better deal to be had. maybe we can do better with ratliff's contract. i'm just thinking of a deal where we can get a center without giving up anything really, that's my only point.
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