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Post by eja117 on Feb 23, 2006 13:32:20 GMT -5
I have a theory that you can't possibly enjoy watching a player who is worse than another. So for example if you enjoy watching Gomes more than Al J, like me, that means you think Gomes is the better player. So you could also think of it as "who is the better player now".
I won't get into the theory of different kinds of betters. Like who is better, a player who plays harder and hustles more and sets a tone or a player with more talent but doesn't play as hard, or a player who may or may not be more talented but "produces" more
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Post by freshnthehouse on Feb 24, 2006 16:47:46 GMT -5
Since I havent been able to watch much b-ball this season(work), i dig watching all the C's youngins. However, I really watching Al. The guy has such a good feel for the game in the paint.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Feb 24, 2006 19:05:00 GMT -5
I have really enjoyed watching Gomes more. Al has shown flashes of his potential, but Gomes has been so steady and does so much around the basket that I enjoy watching him. I don't think it is a matter of one being worse than the other... It is one being different than the other. Like I loved watching Ricky. He was fun to watch but I wouldn't say he was so much better than Wally... just more fun to watch. My favorite Celtic now is Perk. He is so earnest and plays so hard. I just love that kid.
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Post by Celtic17 on Feb 24, 2006 21:17:18 GMT -5
I enjoyed watching Jerry Schicting, Scott Wedman and Bill Walton. It's not all about the glitz and starts. About the question... I don't get to see either of them.
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Post by Roadrunner on Feb 25, 2006 0:01:51 GMT -5
A 4-year college player vs. a high school player? Gomes is more likely fun to watch, because his expectations (draft slot wise) were lower.
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Post by mev17 on Feb 25, 2006 2:48:11 GMT -5
Considering his slow start because of injuries this year, and the fact this is only his second season removed from a small high school in Mississipi, I have to give the nod to Jefferson.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 25, 2006 14:16:13 GMT -5
What about the fact that when Al went down and Gomes started we actually started to win. That's got to count for something.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2006 15:24:37 GMT -5
What about the fact that when Al went down and Gomes started we actually started to win. That's got to count for something. Teams played before Al went down: - Kings, Min, Mil, Pho, and LAC
- Combined record: 142 - 129 .53%
- Record: 1-5
- 21.4 mins 10.4pts 8 rebs .8 blks (Big Al)
Teams played when Gomes started: - Por, PHO, Utah, Cle, and Orl
- Combined record:132-138 49%
- Record: 4-3
- 39.0 mins 11.8pts 9 rebs 0.0 blks .83 ast (Gomes)
Big Al is more efficient with the amount of minutes he's receiving and not to mention he's up against better competition compare to Gomes. Lets not forget Paul Pierce wasn't putting up the big numbers like he is now during that 5 game stretch when Al was getting big minutes. Factor in the fact the team had already played 5 games AFTER the trade occured i.e. chemistry is starting to build. Here is Pierce's number between the two players tenure Pierce's scoring numbers: (Big AL) Sac 18pts W Mil 18 pts L Min 21 pts L Pho 40 pts L Lac 18 pts L (Gomes) Mia 31 pts L Por 35 pts W Orl 31 pts W Cle 50 pts L Uth 30 pts W Pho 20 pts L Por 32 pts W In other words, the only reason why this team has been winning was because Pierce has step up his game dramatically. It has nothing to do with Gomes and his production. I bet this team plays the same way when Al and Perk comes back from injury. So, the record stand point is mute because Pierce wasn't Pierce when the trade was initially made.
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Post by Celtic17 on Feb 25, 2006 23:23:24 GMT -5
Good post JHVOS. I also agree about AlJeff Mev.
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Post by Celtic17 on Feb 25, 2006 23:29:02 GMT -5
What about the fact that when Al went down and Gomes started we actually started to win. That's got to count for something. Who knows EJA. This is such a short run. Let's look at the long-run and were things go. I tend to be positive. I don't like to compare players. For sure not ones that have different roles. Team ball is what it's all about. See West.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 26, 2006 10:40:19 GMT -5
I agree if Al J had been given 39 minutes per game then maybe I wouldn't be thinking this way. It just seems to me whenever Gomes is on the court whether it is as a back up or starter good things happen, and I feel I can't say that about Al J the same way. I have less "Oh my God I can't believe he just did that moments" with Al J. There's no excuse for a sf like Gomes to outrebound Al J. Also when Pierce is playing better it could be because people around him are playing better. Perk was missing this whole time. Perk AND Al J were missing. Gomes steps in and we start winning more. I think player comparrisons are important, of course that's not my job. It's Ainge's. I JUST CAN'T HELP IT
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Post by eja117 on Feb 27, 2006 9:03:04 GMT -5
Ok so this is my point about Gomes being better than Al J. Possibly a lot better.
Let's say Gomes had been injured and Al J had played instead. Do you think he would have gone for 19 and 12? I don't. What sounds more believable
"Hey buddy! Gomes went for 19 and 12 last nite and the Celts beat the Lakers"
or
"Hey buddy! Al J went for 19 and 12 last nite and the Celts beat the Lakers"
or
"Hey buddy! Perk went for 19 and 12 last nite and the Celts beat the Lakers"
Perk and Gomes are totally believeable and AL J isn't. That's why Gomes is better. Cause he plays harder and wants to win more. That's what Doc doesn't get. SO many successful NBA players like Doc and DA had so much talent and see talent as such a birthright that they can't get past hustle, desire, etc.
Gomes is that guy in the gym who pisses talented guys off, cause he's less talented, but smarter and plays harder and makes everyone arounnd him better and his teams always win more.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Feb 27, 2006 9:19:37 GMT -5
At this point, we have only seen glimpses of the talent and potential that Al has. Every time he starts coming into his own and showing what he can do, he goes down with a sprained ankle. It takes him a long time it seems to come back from these injuries and get his timing and lift back so for most of the year, he has either been coming back from an injury or injured. We still don't know what he can do. I expect even when he starts playing again after this injury he won't be 100% and it will take awhile for him to get his timing and lift back. (although as Doc said, he wasn't exactly Sky Walker before the injury).
Gomes on the other hand has instincts. He rebounds the same way as Bird did. He watches the shot, estimates where it is going to come off and then positions himself there. That is how Bird rebounded and played.... Always thinking ahead and Gomes plays the same way. Smart ball.... He makes up for lack of the physical gifts that a lot of players have by being a very smart player. Gomes has great hands and around the basket has a soft touch. I do know that Al missed a lot more tip ins and bunnies than he made. I think he can get that touch and make them with more time on the floor but he is going to have to work at it whereas with Gomes, it seems to be instinctive. He knows just how hard to tip the ball... just how hard to go up for a layup so as not to blow it and not to get blocked. Al is still working on those skills but I do feel that they will come.
In comparing both these players, it is only fair to note that Al is only 2 years removed from high school where he really didn't get any serious coaching on the nuances of the game .... He was just bigger and stronger than everyone and could dominate. He has great instincts but it will take some time and practice to transfer them to the NBA game. Gomes on the other hand had 4 years experience in a good college program where he got solid coaching and came into the league much more NBA ready. Give Al another year and I feel that he will be much better than he is now. He is improving all the time and if it wasn't for the ankle sprains would be a force already. Give him time.... but also give Gomes lots of playing time as he is ready now and playing solid, solid ball. Gomes should get lots of minutes backing up both the 3 and 4 even if not in the starting lineup. In my opinion, he should play all of Scal's minutes... Gomes is clearly a much, much better player than him.
When Al and Perk come back I think the best move would be to keep Gomes starting with Perk .... Move Raef to the bench and bring Al off the bench as well.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 27, 2006 14:52:45 GMT -5
Professional sports is the only place in the world where a college education hurts you. If Gomes were a high school kid he'd be on sportscenter every nite and a million kids would have his jersey by now. Instead of that everyone says "Well he went to college and took time to develop". EXACTLY! That's the point! Can you imagine being at work and there's a younger guy and he screws up left and right and people say "Well he didn't go to college. He did well on his SATs though, so give him a chance" It's unimagineable. And Al J isn't just worse than Gomes cause he is younger or didn't go to college (he has the notable advantages of having played WAY more minutes in the league and being bigger). He is also worse cause he doesn't hustle as much or want it as bad. I'm not saying Al J is bad. Just that he is having a sophomore slump, doesn't play as hard as Perk or Gomes, isn't as good as them, has a hard time staying healthy, and would make an excellent backup for Gomes on any team not coached by Doc. Other than that I like Al J a LOT. I just like Gomes and Perk a lot more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2006 16:41:56 GMT -5
Gomes playing around 35+ minutes a game and he isn't putting much better numbers than AL was putting up in 20+ mins. I don't even count the wins columns because of how much Paul Pierce has step his game ever since Al/Perk went down.
You can't just say Gomes is a better player than Al because the minutes are so misleading. If you cut Gomes minutes by half you're looking at half the production he's putting up right now. I'm not saying he's a bad player but he isn't going to play 35+ mins when AL and Perk come back.
Just wait until Perk and Al come back before anyone can self-claim Gomes as the better player.
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