how do you rate best player?

[kval1441]

I like this thread. I'd be interested in reading how u guys rate players. I'll sit down after work and give my take for sure.
However, it's gotten to the point where Cfs posts are so long and drawn out that I don't even start reading them anymore and I'm starting to skip over them all together. I have no issue with cf and when he gives his opinion(I actually agree w/him most of the time), but I get lost in his pages of words and have to read them a few times to remember what the discussion was about and actually find a point he is trying to make. Always takes such a broad view point and gives ten different sides to every argument. Flip flopping like crazy. Idk, try and keep it to the point for atleast me. I haven't read this last thread cause it feels like 5 pages of cf, so when I get home If I get an hour or more I'll read it.

Much love cf. no disrespect. Maybe I'm on the wrong blog page, but I like everyone here and enjoy all ur points.

[runrondo]

A better team will always beat the team with a better player. I don't really fault Jordan losing to the C's before the Bulls really developed their team just like I don't fault Lebron for losing to the Celtics with Pierce/KG. The better team won. 5 is greater than 1 or 2.

Anyway, Lebron could still win a lot more championships which would really aid in pushing him up the "rankings" for most people as that's what they look at.

I used to feel that Lebron wasn't the best basketball player in terms of playing basketball (shooting, posting up, basketball moves, defense, etc.), but he has by far the best physical gifts and he has continually improved his game. Just look at his efficiency right now. It's crazy, his FG% is like a big man 57%. Unreal. Fresh also mentioned it, but his defense is suffocating now as well. I remember in Cleveland how you would want to stack the paint so he couldn't drive and force him to take jumpers. That would work on and off and the Spurs swept them in their first finals appearance where Lebron basically carried his team by forcing the issue. I think people forget he took that terrible supporting cast to the finals at such a young age (22, I believe). Now, he's upped his game where it's not that simple anymore to take away his drives. His 3 has gotten more consistent, makes better choices, and has expanded his game. If he keeps doing that, he'll continue to be a top player even when his physical attributes are no longer head and shoulders above his competition.


When I watched Russell videos, I was surprised by how much of an athletic freak he also was. The NBA was different, but you can't deny his continued success and winning over his biggest competition (Wilt). I can't really rate him appropriately, though, but I do love his laughs/interviews now haha.

Magic/Bird were also before my time, but I've seen a lot of them. Still, I wouldn't really feel safe rating them either as watching a bunch of youtube videos doesn't really give you the feelings of watching during that era.

Jordan was basically the first player I saw and I think a lot of people in that position will claim he is the best ever. I don't think any other player had the influence Jordan did on the game. The midrange, the drives, the competitiveness, etc. He was the best player I've seen. Can Lebron be better? I don't really know what would change my mind as perceptions have really changed with social media and such around the clock reports/news. Lebron gets a lot of negative press because of his position as the best nba player whereas Jordan is always universally praised as a basketball player (not person). I think that constant press skews your opinion. I still think Lebron is the most physically gifted NBA player I've seen, while Jordan is the best basketball player I've seen. Either way, you don't want to play against them and Lebron still has many years left.

[cfoo]

McEnroe was a spoiled brat. I see him differently now as i'm older. he was a rich la kid or something. nnot sure where he is from but seems like la to me. but he was entertaining and I liked the way he played. I more used to fake imitate him and joke around when I would play tennis as a kid and throw my racket more as a joke. I don't think McEnroe was acting that's the thing. I was more joking around. but he wasn't afraid to be himself. lamebeer on the other hand I was joking around heckling him at a Celtics game because he was kind of the same way. didn't like laimbeer so much b ut fun to make fun of. reggie Jackson was the same thing to me. just that rivalry between the red sox and Yankees and Celtics and Detroit. I've never had the same hate for la for some reason and I don't know why. I am a bigger Celtics fan than I am red sox fan too. never minded shaq that m uch though or magic.

[cfoo]

McEnroe was born in Germany. grew up in new York. went to Stanford. lives in new York. never knew that. but yes McEnroe was a spoiled brat. he was kind of lik ehte heinsohn version of tennis player though. he was a tennis player and kind of unmanly but what do you expect he was a tennis player lol. was andre Agassi manly? not really. I had a friend in highschool where I got into tennis for a short time. he idolized Agassi and was more into tennis than me. I liked McEnroe. he was a Jordan fan too. I didn't like Jordan or Agassi that much. Jordan vs bird. Agassi vs McEnroe different kind of players. just goes to show people have different mindsets.

[runrondo]

I played tennis in high school and, believe me, a lot of players throw tantrums on the court. It's a real mind-twist playing a sport 1 vs. 1 where you only have yourself to blame for errors. Similar to golf, where you kind of get into your own head and it can get frustrating. Doesn't mean we should all act like Mcenroe haha. But, once you play a sport where it's all about you, it can get really aggravating when compared to a team sport where your frustrations can lie more so on teammates/strategy, as opposed to solely on yourself.

[cfoo]

I wish there were more competitors like that in sports these days. All these guys get paid so much money I think players like that are a dying breed. Maybe i'm wrong though. McEnroe was a competitor to me. Agassi was more the golden boy at the time or something. McEnroe just knew how to raise his game to another level and was clutch like that. He would do whatever he had to do in his own way. That's being the man by my estimation. you gotta do what you gotta do. he might have been a total masacist on the tennis court but it was entertaining.

[cfoo]

it's no different than kg beating his head against the support in basketball. Love KG. Too many players idolize LeBron imo vs trying to beat him. If it remains that way he isn't going to be beaten. Me personally I don't think LeBron is better than these other guys. I have nothing against LeBron overly but I do think he can be beat.

Rondo is a guy I forgot to put on my favorite plaeyrs list but he is up there. I think rondo with the right mix of players around him could do some damage to LeBron. Rondo has some of that underdog mentality if he gets his head out of his butt and starts making his teammates even better. That to me gets overlooked sometimes because it doesn't show up on the stat sheet so much. It's also not a physical thing. It shows up in wins and losses mostly.

emmitt was that same guy where he might not have had the ridiculous athleticism like barry but he knew how to make the winning play. brady same thing although since brady has become the man and started putting up godly stats, he isn't as good. most of these guy slike Russell where just trying to win the game. They would do whatever it took to do that. That was th eir one goal.

Russell is the model of that imo. He didn't care about anything else except winning. That's why he is the best to me. If the best isn't defined by winning then I don't know why people play the game like herm Edwards said. herm never won to my knowledge and isnt the best and knows this better than anyone lol. That's why you play the game. yeah its for fun and to get some exercise and teammates and all that stuff but ultimately what defines best is winning.

[cfoo]

i'd like to see at least one celtic get more titles than LeBron. That would be rondo. he might not. magic got more titles than bird and I think magic was the best and proved it. but both those guys had to play each other. Jordan didn't beat either of those guys except magic once when magic was really old and so was his team. its no different than LeBron beating Duncan. I don't think LeBron is better than Duncan so much. If he gets more titles maybe. but he didn't have the same competition that bird or magic did. Duncan played when the lakers and Celtics were good too. KG was out there and got one once he went to a better team. The lakers had kobe and shaq.

Magic got 6 rings I think if im not mistaken. Bird got 3. Magic went to the finals like 11 times. Bird got 3, Detroit got 1 when magic was hurt and Jordan got one at the very end. If bird or magic wasn't playing thos eguys would each have 11 rings. Russell has that many. Jordan has 6 I think. could have had 8 if he didn't play baseball. Lebron can be stopped. He has 2 so far. Russell had to face chamberlain still got 11 rings. Duncan, KG, Kobe, Shaq had to play each other in their prime. Who did LeBron and Jordan have to beat. it was barkley, ewing, Malone, olajuwan etc... I don't think any of those are in chamberlain or bird or magics class. Russell got 11 rings going against chamberlain. Magic got 6 going against bird. Jordan's competition wasn't as stiff. neither is lebrons.

[cfoo]

Jordan beat seattle in the finals. shawn kemp. The jazz twice. Malone and Stockton. phoenix with barkley. Portland with Drexler. and the lakers. And he would beat up on ewing and Indiana with reggie miller every year. He went and played baseball when Olajuwan decided to go nuts. Did he plan this? who knows. Jordan was a gambler so I wouldn't put it past him. The legend grows. Olajuwan would have beat him and he knew it? Russell didn't run away from Chamberlain. He beat him. More reason why he's better.

Jordan is like that Seinfeld episode where jerry cheated in that race and his legend grew. barry sanders same thing. didn't win a thing. retired from the game early and his legend grew. gale sayers anyone? walter payton was better.

Jordan was beating up on some pretty weak teams. Drexler and Hakeem teamed up and Jordan chose the odds of his lack of baseball skills being exposed was better than his basketball skills. AS crazy as that sounds I would not put that past Jordan or his agent.

Nike and Jordan to me was about creating an image that couldn't be matched. It was about image with him as much as anything. I used towatch him play and always felt like he could be beat. I think Drexler and olajuwan would have beaten pippen and Jordan and those guys and not because they had a better team. But because Jordan was overrated.

I'm more just joking. He probably just wanted to play baseball and do that before he was too old but the timing was a little weird for sure. I definitely would not put that past some people and that perfectionist mentality. J ordan kind of fit that persona perfectly.

[freshnthehouse]

Apr 18, 2014 11:50:31 GMT -5 cfoo said:

Drexler and Hakeem teamed up and Jordan chose the odds of his lack of baseball skills being exposed was better than his basketball skills.

Jordan had already been out of basketball for over a year when Drexler was traded to Houston. Jordan returned to basketball about a month after the trade.

[freshnthehouse]

Apr 18, 2014 11:26:39 GMT -5 cfoo said:

Magic got 6 rings I think if im not mistaken. Bird got 3. Magic went to the finals like 11 times. Bird got 3, Detroit got 1 when magic was hurt and Jordan got one at the very end. If bird or magic wasn't playing thos eguys would each have 11 rings. Russell has that many. Jordan has 6 I think. could have had 8 if he didn't play baseball. Lebron can be stopped. He has 2 so far. Russell had to face chamberlain still got 11 rings. Duncan, KG, Kobe, Shaq had to play each other in their prime. Who did LeBron and Jordan have to beat. it was barkley, ewing, Malone, olajuwan etc... I don't think any of those are in chamberlain or bird or magics class. Russell got 11 rings going against chamberlain. Magic got 6 going against bird. Jordan's competition wasn't as stiff. neither is lebrons.

-Magic had 5 rings. Pistons won 2.

-If those darn Spurs could've made their free throws in game 6 last year the Heat would only have one championship. Ugh, that game was miserable. Spurs were so close.

-One thing were the Lakers and the Spurs got lucky is that they got to play some serious creampuffs in the East during their late 90s/early 00s championships. Lakers got to beat up a Nets team that played no D, a Sixer team way over its head, and a Pacers team that was past its prime. The Spurs beat a Knicks team that had no business being in the finals, that same no-D-playing Nets team, and a Cavs team that was Lebron James and a bunch of random parts. To their credit they did beat a damn good Pistons team in 2005.

-I think the Celtics of the 80s deserve a lot of credit for making it to the finals as many times as they did. The east was brutal back then. Sixers were a monster. Milwaukee was always awesome. Around 86 the Pistons became a champhionship contender. The Lakers often got to take advantage of the fact that the west was pretty poor back then.

[freshnthehouse]

Apr 18, 2014 8:36:06 GMT -5 runrondo said:

When I watched Russell videos, I was surprised by how much of an athletic freak he also was. The NBA was different, but you can't deny his continued success and winning over his biggest competition (Wilt). I can't really rate him appropriately, though, but I do love his laughs/interviews now haha.

Russell was such a freak. Strong, crazy fast, and could jump through the roof. I get a kick out of people saying he couldn't play in today's game. Russell was 6'9 and 5/8" in bare feet. Nowadays guys that tall list themselves as 6'11". Russell also had a 7'4" wingspan.



Look where he takes off on that jump. Crazy.

I love hearing stories about Wilt as well. Such a force of nature. In this video Arnold mentions Wilt doing 170lb tricep extensions. That is incredible.

[cfoo]

Jordan played the year shaq went to the finals and got beat by him? I don't remember that.

Lebron has some pretty stiff competition this year anyways. Indy, OKC and Houston are all strong teams. Houston and Indy have big people as well. OKC has perk. I t depends on how much Durant and George want it. Houston is the darkhorse to me this year. howard is another guy where it depends on how much he wants it.

it's similar to the Jordan era though. OKC is basically seattle. Indy and Houston. There is no barkley or karl Malone unless you consider kevin love that. I don't think there is anyone in bird or magics class in the nba right now or Russell or chamberlain. Duncan and Garnett are the closest thing the nba has to Russell these days and they are old. Shaq is probably the closest thing the nba has had to chamberlain.

[cfoo]

I don't thnk we want to become Utah with Stockton and Malone or phoenix for that matter. So we draft and build a better team.

[freshnthehouse]

Apr 18, 2014 16:34:01 GMT -5 cfoo said:

Jordan played the year shaq went to the finals and got beat by him? I don't remember that.

Haha yeah it was great. I couldn't stand Jordan or the Bulls back then, so to see Jordan make a crucial turnover to lose that series was a sports highlight for me at the time.