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Post by meltinjohn on Oct 4, 2005 0:12:23 GMT -5
...and before I came to this board, was there lots of raving and excitement about our picks? Guys like Moiso, Kedrick, Forte, Mercer, Billups, Joe Johnson? I just wonder what hype and compliments yous gave these guys as rookies on our team. If they were high, I will take nothing that is said serious anymore. Especially about most of these bad picks. Was Acie Earl and Montross even good excitement? Lets hope that some of you were not raving about Earl and Montross like you are to Perkins and lets say Allen. Something tells me Forte was a steal of the draft in everyones eyes in here at 1 time much like Tony Allen so called is now. I am just kind of getting an idea what the excitement level about draft days were before I arrived here and before Danny arrived to the Boston Celtics.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 4, 2005 0:52:59 GMT -5
Joe Forte showed absolutely nothing the entire time he was here. There was a lot of hope that Montross would become the future for the C's in the middle. His rookie #s were alright. I think they went downhill right after that though. A lot of people were really high on Kedrick Brown. I never saw anything special about him. I also never that that Joe JOhnson would be anything exciting either, so now you know the reason I am not gainfully employed in the NBA.
THere was hype up the wazoo about billups and mercer, just as there shouldve been. Number three and no.6 overall picks in the draft? That was supposed to be our future backcourt.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 4, 2005 12:42:58 GMT -5
Montross was never the intimidator that Perk is and was smaller and older. Perk is 20. Forte immediately had a bad rookie year and it went downhill from there. same thing pretty much with Kedrick and Moiso. None of those players were the best defender on the team at any point. Or the best rebounder or big man. JJ and Billups would have been fine had there been some patience, which is why a lot of us is asking for patience with Banks. Also in the past the Celts couldn't make a 2nd round pick to save their life, and now they can't mess them up. There are some differences.
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Post by goceltics34 on Oct 4, 2005 18:11:59 GMT -5
What i love about what danny is doing is he's getting excellent value for these picks, and is picking the best available player, and not just drafting for need. Acie Earl, and montross benefited in college because most center in the college ranks are between 6'9 -6'10 not 7 foot. IMO we just drafted these guys because they had size and we tried to fill the void left by the chief and mchale. That draft strategy gets GM's on the unemployment line. I was quite furious we gave up on billups so fast the guy was a stud in high school, at colorado, and still is with the pistons. Pitino didnt have the patience so he jettisoned him off way to quickly.
Forte was a nice college player noting special, kedrick everyone was paranoid over him because he could jump thru the roof, but never had a real high basketball IQ. Joe johnson IMO is a player who will give you 15 and 5 and will give you agreat defensive effort, but he will never crack superstar staus.
Now lets evaluate Danny drafts.
Banks and Perk i believe were players brought in to give this team a jolt of youth, as well being players we could develop for the future.
Tony allen- WaS big XII player of the year in college, and took his team to the final four. Highly productive player in college, if nothing more can be a solid defender in this league which i will gladly take. Joe dumars, dennis rodman, gary payton, ron artest made their names on defense.
Delonte west- Another highly productive player in college, but never recieved his just due , because jameer nelson stole the spotlight, but west was just as important to that team as nelson was. West lead his team to the elite 8 were he eventually lost too allen's oklahoma st team. West has a great understanding of the game and can shoot. Again another excellent value pick by danny.
Al JEFFERSON- Was supposed to go higher than orignally thought. I remember going into that draft Robert swift was supposed to be the choice, now who do you guys think has the better NBA future. Big AL could be an all star in a couple of years, meanwhile swift who was drafted higher is still riding the pine in seattle.
Gerald GREEN- Projected to go in the top 5 slips to number 18, again the key word VALUE. Danny glady capitalized on other GM's blunders. You know you hit HOMERUN when jerry west was pissed he couldnt move up to snag green.
Ryan Gomes- Would have been a first round pick had he come out after his sophomore year at providence. I hate to keep reiterating the same theme here, but again productive player in college, and was projected to go higher than he did.
I'm glad to see our scouting department really look at the college players hard , especially the one's who've had success in college. Drafting isnt an exact science, i think we've been fortunate that teams like the clippers and the raptors continue to blow drafts, but their loss is our gain.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 4, 2005 19:23:24 GMT -5
Excellent post, GC34!!!
To sum it up, Danny is an excellent evaluator of talent. He sees the abilities in players (or potential abilities) that few see.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 5, 2005 8:36:50 GMT -5
I think to a certian extent he's cleverly doing what Jimmy johnson did in the NFl. I call it the shotgun effect, where a guy trades down to get extra picks seeing as how it's all a crap shoot anyway, then pcks for value knowing something is going to work out and there will be extra competition. DA seems to practically be doing it too well though if there is such a thing, which there isn't
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 5, 2005 10:26:06 GMT -5
Even though he has had only 1 lottery pick in the 3 drafts (in '03, he used the 13th overall pick to grab Banks) he's been in charge of, he's been able to pull in 3 guys who were deemed lottery material before the drafts (Jefferson, Gerald Green, and possibly Ryan Gomes). That's luck. But for Ainge to grab guys like Delonte, Allen, Reed, etc when others were bypassing them, it shows that he has a good sense of player's potential.
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Post by meltinjohn on Oct 5, 2005 20:47:37 GMT -5
Danny has really done a lot of good things with these drafts. In a long time, no 2nd rounders have ever had this much potential. Even if Reed, Greene and Gomes aren't much which Gomes will be I think, it is still the very very very very most that celtics fans have ever seen with possible 2nd rd steals. Junior Burrough was a terrible pick, Ben Pepper, Sessar? Kris Klack?. They never played 1 nba game. Danny has done great. I'd only be happier if he arrived earlier. He woulda drafted and kept Billups and drafted McGrady with the 6th and not Mercer which what Pitino did was just like what McHale did by picking McCants over Green. That much I can tell you. Yrs back, there was never anything to look forward to. Montross I will admit, I was excited for. I thought he would be the man. His rookie numbers showed to have good in his possible future back then. Kedrick I had no feeling on. I didn't even know who he was lol. Joe Forte I was blah on it. Joe Johnson I was also blah on. Billups I was happy about. Mercer I even was at the time. Walker I surely was. When Walker was a rookie or 2nd yr player, there was no way of knowing Nash would be as good as he became or Kobe would be 20 times better or Peja who I had no clue about. I was also younger too. But I thought the guys who did great early on (and there were many) would continue it and win titles for their teams including AW.
Now with the clippers past drafts, they weren't as bad as Torontos. Bosh was a good pick but just 1 in a 3 yr time. Vill and Arrajo were the others. I can see bust written over Arrajo. Varejao will be better and he was a late 1st.
The Clippers had 2 decent drafts recently. Livingston was a great pick. Koralev I hear could be an AK47/Peja like player. Koralev won't be that bad a pick I don't think. But Green was who they could have got had they not promised him.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 6, 2005 3:10:00 GMT -5
Yeah, had Toine been with a different coach who didn't use him the way Pitino, and especially Jim O'Brien did, he may have had a different career and possibly still be a Celtic.
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Post by meltinjohn on Oct 6, 2005 19:00:54 GMT -5
Yea Antoine would be much more valuable to this team if he had a total other example. Despite how he learned, I mean he is stil a 20 and 9 player so just imagine if he learned from the beginning how to play the right way. Hed be a talent and have an all round game.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 6, 2005 19:31:53 GMT -5
Antoine also has a lot of physical limitations. He isnt very strong, at least in the upper body, and he cant jump over a deck of cards. His lack of hops is one of the major reasons that his moves in the paint are often sent back, express mail, to his face.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 6, 2005 19:55:27 GMT -5
Right you are, Fresh.
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Post by meltinjohn on Oct 6, 2005 23:33:28 GMT -5
Walker wasn't ever a good leaper it didn't seem. Maybe more as a rookie or 2nd yr guy but thats all I saw if anything. He seemed to have lost the shimmy also.
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Post by ferbo on Oct 7, 2005 0:01:18 GMT -5
If AW wanted, he perhaps could have worked on increasing his vertical leap the way Perkins did.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 7, 2005 0:32:31 GMT -5
He doesnt really strike me as a guy that had a whole lot of physical ability to work with. COmbine that with a lackluster work ethic, you get Antoine's 1.87 cm vertical leap.
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