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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 2, 2013 6:53:38 GMT -5
I would still take Wiggins number 1 overall if for no other reason than his defensive potential. Dude looks like he is going to be a premier wing defender at the next level. Both parker and randle have defensive ?s.
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Post by jrmzt on Dec 2, 2013 10:08:42 GMT -5
Defense is slightly overrated especially in this era of zone schemes. A good defensive coach is far more important than a good individual defensive player. Thibs and Vogel are showing it.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 2, 2013 20:02:58 GMT -5
I don't think defense is overated. Good defensive schemes can mask individually weak defenders, but you get no positive defensive value from this player. But good defensive players produce turnovers (steals, blocks, disrupt opposing teams' gameplan, etc). Just like in football, defensive turnovers are big.
With that said, a timid Wiggins who plays good defense isn't enough to warrant taking him over Jabari, or even Randle. The only way Wiggins is taken #1 over Parker is if he proves he can be the Man.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 4, 2013 0:31:49 GMT -5
Jabari continues to showcase his vast skills offensively. Only scored 15 pts today, but he had some man moves in the paint area that were impressive.
If Wiggins is taken before him, whoever ends up with Parker is going to get to get one heck of a player, who may end up the better player.
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Post by jrmzt on Dec 4, 2013 10:05:01 GMT -5
DM what do you think of Aaron Gordon from arizona?
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 4, 2013 22:12:25 GMT -5
I think he's a talented young man who isn't being given the opportunity to showcase himself. Much like Rondo at Kentucky, Gordon isn't allowed to free himself to prove how much game he has.
Because Arizona has Jahii Carson running Point and making a name for himself, Gordon is asked to play more of a traditional SF. But he is really at his best when he can play Point Forward.
I made the comparison to Grant Hill after watching him as a high schooler, in terms of style, not in terms of potential.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 10, 2014 10:44:31 GMT -5
If the draft were today, I don't take Wiggins #1. Not only has he not proven himself yet, but I have more questions about him now than I did before the college season started.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 10, 2014 14:37:15 GMT -5
Good coaches mask the weakness of bad or average players. Coach K, Jim Boeheim, Coach Izzo...alot of players look good playing under them.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 10, 2014 15:09:24 GMT -5
I'm seriously wondering if Wiggins has the mentality to shine. He could be worse than Jeff Green in this regard.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 10, 2014 15:20:03 GMT -5
We know he has the talent. He needs the right coach. Kansas was a bad choice for him. It didnt need him to be the alpha dog. It didnt need him to grow as a leader. It didnt need him to force his will upon others. Some guys could still do that with talent around them but Wiggins needed a different growing environment. He should have gone to a lesser school with a good coach who can better force him to be what we want him to be.
I'd still take a chance on Wiggin if he was around when we picked...provided we dont have the option to take Parker, Embiid, Randle, etc by then.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 10, 2014 15:31:29 GMT -5
Exactly. And who knows, maybe if Bill Self told Wiggins that this is his team and they will only go as far as he takes them, they'd be in a better position than they are now. As it is, the ones who are dictating the offense are Kansas' 2 lesser PG's, who aren't NBA prospects.
In a way, yes, this is college basketball, and part of it is learning team basketball. But when you have a talent this great, you let him lead, and let team basketball revolve around him. That's what Coach K is doing at Duke with Parker.
It wouldn't surprise me, and I even think it will happen, that Wiggins falls out of the top 2 picks. He won't slide much lower than that.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 10, 2014 15:36:28 GMT -5
I actually think he'll fall to maybe the 5th spot. Parker seems the consensus, some team will bet on Embiid's crazy potential, Randle is a premier big man which is a rarity in the NBA, and then you have Smart who I think some PG hungry team will take a chance on..for example if we look at the standings at the moment, Orlando and Milwaukee both have a need for a PG. Those 4 may very well go ahead of Wiggins, making him the 5th selection.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 10, 2014 15:54:12 GMT -5
I think Smart is a candidate to fall too (like Wiggins). Smart is not a true PG (his turnovers are up this year) and he's not an elite scoring threat. If you aren't a true PG, you gotta be a big scoring threat (Westbrook, Tony Parker). And if you struggle to score, you gotta be able to lead and fascilitate well (Kendall Marshall).
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Post by kval1441 on Jan 10, 2014 17:02:08 GMT -5
I think Smart is a candidate to fall too (like Wiggins). Smart is not a true PG (his turnovers are up this year) and he's not an elite scoring threat. If you aren't a true PG, you gotta be a big scoring threat (Westbrook, Tony Parker). And if you struggle to score, you gotta be able to lead and fascilitate well (Kendall Marshall). What kind of comparison is this?? If ur not a "true" pg u need to be a big scoring threat like Parker and westbrook(which I agree with). Or a fascilitater AND Leader like Kendall BLEEPIN Marshall??? The same guy drafted and cut by the pheonix suns the same year?? Same guy they wouldn't let even Sniff the floor on a rebuilding team?? Same guy that couldn't even get on a team before a couple weeks ago?? The same guy that is shooting 15% for jump shots? The same guy that in a D'Antoni system, only manages to put up only 8 assists per game playing like 35 min. Per game?? This is the Leader and Fascilitator that u are putting in the same breath as Parker or Westbrook... Like if your not Parker or Westbrook, as long as you are Kendall BLEEPIN Marshall your fine as a PG. Just try using 1 of 35 other point guards that are waaay better decision makers and Leaders than Kendall Marshall.. Thats disrespectful to Parker, Westbrook and almost every other pg in the league. :-) |
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 10, 2014 17:39:14 GMT -5
Where smart outshines his competitors is his defense. He is one of the best defensive pgs to come out in a long time. He may end up being similar to mark jackson or someone like that. He's tony allen but better. He has some baron davis to his game too. He needs to keep his head up when he dribbles. He is a good scorer and facilitator but where he stands out is his defense. The reason i compare him to mark jackson and davis is because he has a post game for a point guard and is a good defensive player although davis got lazy and never got the feeling he wanted to play defense like mark jackson. Smart wants to play defense and that is a huge part of his game. As far as wiggins i haven't seen a ton of him yet. I get he's not lighting the world on fire at the college level but neither did pierce. Thing is Oden also kind of went through the motions and flopped where Durant was lights out which wiggins kind of reminds me of. Guys like Wiggins and Randle are physical specimens to me. I'm nto a big fan of either. RAndle is really good but he's also kind of a ball hog. He reminds me of Karl Malone who is a hall of famer but i was never a huge fan of Karl Malone either.
Parker, Smart and Embiid are my guys so far. I'd probably take parker #1 but Wiggins needs someone to really scout him. If someone who i trusted told me you gotta take wiggins i would. If he fell in my lap i wouldn't argue either.
This still is a guy who people were saying is the next basketball god. Michael Jordan wasn't ridiculous in college either. I'll wait until the tournement to hold judgement on Wiggins. I agree with Fresh where i still think he's gotta go #1.
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