Post by eddietours on Sept 30, 2005 10:00:02 GMT -5
Well, a computer glitch kept me from getting to my regular dose of Daily Dribbles this morning (besides just making my life plain miserable). But fear not, as reader Chris Hinkle has come through with a wonderful e-mail about the 1985-86 Boston Celtics -- as well as great teams from other eras. Chris was responding to my last Amico Report newsletter about the '85-86 season.
So, with the computer problems a thing of the past (we hope), I will now allow Chris to carry me for the day. Take it away, Chris:
"I loved your newsletter about the 1985-86 season. My most enduring memory from that year is watching that Celtics team, which I feel is the best in NBA history.
Now, I’m no Celtics apologist. I hated them while growing up, and always rooting for the Lakers (or Rockets) in the Finals during the 80s when they played the Celts. I’m actually a Mavs fan. I spent my teens in Connecticut and saw the Celts local games on TV, plus the local telecasts when they played the Knicks and Nets. I couldn’t stand them and their blatantly homer broadcasters.
But years later I grew to really appreciate them, and I feel they’d clean the clocks of most teams today, and really only be seriously challenged by some of the other all-time great teams -- notably the early 70s Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls and obviously the Kareem/Magic Lakers. I wish they would have played the Lakers in the Finals that year; although I would have rooted for LA, the Celtics would have beaten them. That year Boston went 67-15, and only lost one home game, regular season or playoffs, the entire year.
Why were those Celtics so good? First let’s look at their individual players:
• Larry Bird was in his prime, and he is the best forward ever. Period. How many rings did Chuck or Mailman get? Bird was a great shooter, passer, and rebounder, and he was the best clutch player I’ve ever seen. That year he won his third straight regular season MVP award. He wasn’t known as a great defender, but he did average over 2 steals per game that year. Anyway, the Celtics didn’t need him to be a great defender, because they had…
• Kevin McHale, who had the most unstoppable low-post moves of any player in the history of the game. He was simply unguardable down low. Plus, he was such a good defender that he could guard any frontcourt position. So at that point in his career, before he played in the '86-87 Finals with a broken foot, he always guarded the opposing team’s top scoring frontcourt player (like Dominique Wilkins). This freed up Bird and…
• Robert Parish was perhaps the most underrated center in the history of the NBA and the third member of what I consider the best starting frontcourt in league history. He was a solid defender and rebounder, and his turnaround jumper was pretty much undefendable. He enjoyed a career renaissance after being traded to Boston a few years earlier, as did his backup…
• Bill Walton was the best passing center in NBA history (except for maybe Arvidas Sabonis) the Finals MVP in 1977, and the regular season MVP in 1977-78. By this time his feet were broken down, but he was healthy enough to play solid minutes as a backup. He and Bird were the best passing center-forward tandem in NBA history, and the other Celtics got lots of easy buckets because of it, notably…
• Danny Ainge was a heady, clutch player, a streaky shooter, and scrappy defender who could bring the ball up court in the Celts’ no-point guard attack. Like some other Celts that year, he was in his prime, and later went on to make important contributions to other teams in the Finals (Portland and Phoenix), as had his backcourt mate…
• Dennis Johnson was the Finals MVP in 1979 with Seattle and the man whom Bird called 'the best I’ve ever played with.' Johnson was named to five All-Star teams and nine straight All-Defensive Teams. He was brought to Boston to counter Magic Johnson, and while he gets overlooked these days he was an important contributor to the Celts. DJ really wasn’t known as a shooter, but always seemed to make a big play when needed, like that layup against the Pistons. Besides, for pure outside shooting Boston had Bird, Ainge, and also…
• Scott Wedman and Jerry Sichting were two great shooters. Wedman was a former all-star from Kansas City who finally joined a winner in Boston. The year before he shot 11-11 in one Finals game against the Lakers, a record that still stands. Sichting was a forerunner of the John Paxson-Steve Kerr type players on those great Bulls teams. Basically Sichting would get open, Bird or Walton would feed him, and it was an automatic two.
Needless to say this was a crazy collection of talent that most teams today will never have -- two regular seasons MVPs and three Finals MVPs, as well as several first-team All-NBA’ers and multiple all-stars. But as the Lakers of a few years ago proved, talent alone doesn’t make a great team. So aside from talent, why were the '85-86 Celtics so great?
• Passing: This was the best passing team I’ve ever seen. People older than me talk about the great passing Knicks teams of the early 70s. I never saw them, so I can’t say, but I can say that this team -- with Bird, Walton, Ainge and DJ ssed so well that on some nights it looked like the Globetrotters against the Washington Generals.
• Defense: Bird always gets slammed for being a poor defender, but as I noted, he averaged 2 steals a game that year. The other starters were all at worst very good defenders, and McHale and DJ were both great defenders. In fact, McHale was probably the best defensive forward of his era before he broke his foot the following year.
• Heart: No player had more heart than Bird, and the rest of the Celts that year likewise did the little things that champions must do. Selfishness just wasn’t tolerated on that team. They lost to the Lakers the year before in the Finals and played with a chip on their shoulders all year.
• Scoring: As noted, these guys could fill it up. Parish and McHale both had unstoppable offensive moves, and Bird was insane that year. The Celts were smart enough to play inside-out -- that is, feed the post first, then hit the open shooter if the high percentage shot wasn’t there.Or just let Bird go one-on-one, because he could back then and pretty much bust anybody.
• Versatility: The versatility of the Celtics' roster allowed them many different combinations of players. Walton and Wedman both could come in and spell any other front court player, and their no-true-point-guard attack allowed either Ainge or DJ to bring the ball up, and let Sichting spell either one of them. Bird could also bring it up if he had to.
Other Teams
OK, but what about those other great teams, like the '66-67 Sixers, the '71-72 Lakers, the '86-87 Lakers, or the Bulls of the late '90s? To be candid, I never saw either of the first two teams play -- I’m not that old. So I won’t write about them and if you want to say that one of those teams was better, I’ll listen to your opinion. But I will talk about the two latter teams.
• 1986-87 Lakers: This team beat essentially the same Celtics team in the Finals, so they’re better, right? Wrong. That Celtics team was ravaged by injuries and really didn’t have its full compliment of players. In fact, Kevin McHale played on a broken foot and ultimately shortened his career because of it. So you really can’t say that was the same team, and yet they still gave the Lakers a tough six-game series. And they very well might have still beaten the Lakers that year if not for Magic’s clutch 'junior junior skyhook.' The healthy, hungry Celtics of the previous year would have beaten that Lakers team.
• 1995-96 Bulls: This team won more regular season games than any other in 1995-96. Jordan was the greatest ever, right? They’d beat that Celtic team, right? Wrong. The key here is the Celtics’ great frontcourt and the Bulls’ relatively weak center play. Sure, Rodman and Pippen were great defensive players. Either one of them probably could have given Bird a hard time and made him work for points. But remember, he averaged nearly 7 assists that year. Also, somebody would have still have had to guard McHale, and as I stated above, he was unstoppable down low. Remember, there were some good, very tall defensive post players in his day -- like Tree Rollins, Ralph Sampson, Marvin Webster, Hakeem, Manute Bol, Mark Eaton -- and none of them could stop McHale. And neither could Rodman nor Pippen. And that still left Parish, who would have scored easily over Luc Longley or the other Bulls centers. So sure, Jordan might have scored 40 a game, but in the end, the 1985-86 Celtics, my pick for best NBA team ever, would have triumphed."
So, with the computer problems a thing of the past (we hope), I will now allow Chris to carry me for the day. Take it away, Chris:
"I loved your newsletter about the 1985-86 season. My most enduring memory from that year is watching that Celtics team, which I feel is the best in NBA history.
Now, I’m no Celtics apologist. I hated them while growing up, and always rooting for the Lakers (or Rockets) in the Finals during the 80s when they played the Celts. I’m actually a Mavs fan. I spent my teens in Connecticut and saw the Celts local games on TV, plus the local telecasts when they played the Knicks and Nets. I couldn’t stand them and their blatantly homer broadcasters.
But years later I grew to really appreciate them, and I feel they’d clean the clocks of most teams today, and really only be seriously challenged by some of the other all-time great teams -- notably the early 70s Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls and obviously the Kareem/Magic Lakers. I wish they would have played the Lakers in the Finals that year; although I would have rooted for LA, the Celtics would have beaten them. That year Boston went 67-15, and only lost one home game, regular season or playoffs, the entire year.
Why were those Celtics so good? First let’s look at their individual players:
• Larry Bird was in his prime, and he is the best forward ever. Period. How many rings did Chuck or Mailman get? Bird was a great shooter, passer, and rebounder, and he was the best clutch player I’ve ever seen. That year he won his third straight regular season MVP award. He wasn’t known as a great defender, but he did average over 2 steals per game that year. Anyway, the Celtics didn’t need him to be a great defender, because they had…
• Kevin McHale, who had the most unstoppable low-post moves of any player in the history of the game. He was simply unguardable down low. Plus, he was such a good defender that he could guard any frontcourt position. So at that point in his career, before he played in the '86-87 Finals with a broken foot, he always guarded the opposing team’s top scoring frontcourt player (like Dominique Wilkins). This freed up Bird and…
• Robert Parish was perhaps the most underrated center in the history of the NBA and the third member of what I consider the best starting frontcourt in league history. He was a solid defender and rebounder, and his turnaround jumper was pretty much undefendable. He enjoyed a career renaissance after being traded to Boston a few years earlier, as did his backup…
• Bill Walton was the best passing center in NBA history (except for maybe Arvidas Sabonis) the Finals MVP in 1977, and the regular season MVP in 1977-78. By this time his feet were broken down, but he was healthy enough to play solid minutes as a backup. He and Bird were the best passing center-forward tandem in NBA history, and the other Celtics got lots of easy buckets because of it, notably…
• Danny Ainge was a heady, clutch player, a streaky shooter, and scrappy defender who could bring the ball up court in the Celts’ no-point guard attack. Like some other Celts that year, he was in his prime, and later went on to make important contributions to other teams in the Finals (Portland and Phoenix), as had his backcourt mate…
• Dennis Johnson was the Finals MVP in 1979 with Seattle and the man whom Bird called 'the best I’ve ever played with.' Johnson was named to five All-Star teams and nine straight All-Defensive Teams. He was brought to Boston to counter Magic Johnson, and while he gets overlooked these days he was an important contributor to the Celts. DJ really wasn’t known as a shooter, but always seemed to make a big play when needed, like that layup against the Pistons. Besides, for pure outside shooting Boston had Bird, Ainge, and also…
• Scott Wedman and Jerry Sichting were two great shooters. Wedman was a former all-star from Kansas City who finally joined a winner in Boston. The year before he shot 11-11 in one Finals game against the Lakers, a record that still stands. Sichting was a forerunner of the John Paxson-Steve Kerr type players on those great Bulls teams. Basically Sichting would get open, Bird or Walton would feed him, and it was an automatic two.
Needless to say this was a crazy collection of talent that most teams today will never have -- two regular seasons MVPs and three Finals MVPs, as well as several first-team All-NBA’ers and multiple all-stars. But as the Lakers of a few years ago proved, talent alone doesn’t make a great team. So aside from talent, why were the '85-86 Celtics so great?
• Passing: This was the best passing team I’ve ever seen. People older than me talk about the great passing Knicks teams of the early 70s. I never saw them, so I can’t say, but I can say that this team -- with Bird, Walton, Ainge and DJ ssed so well that on some nights it looked like the Globetrotters against the Washington Generals.
• Defense: Bird always gets slammed for being a poor defender, but as I noted, he averaged 2 steals a game that year. The other starters were all at worst very good defenders, and McHale and DJ were both great defenders. In fact, McHale was probably the best defensive forward of his era before he broke his foot the following year.
• Heart: No player had more heart than Bird, and the rest of the Celts that year likewise did the little things that champions must do. Selfishness just wasn’t tolerated on that team. They lost to the Lakers the year before in the Finals and played with a chip on their shoulders all year.
• Scoring: As noted, these guys could fill it up. Parish and McHale both had unstoppable offensive moves, and Bird was insane that year. The Celts were smart enough to play inside-out -- that is, feed the post first, then hit the open shooter if the high percentage shot wasn’t there.Or just let Bird go one-on-one, because he could back then and pretty much bust anybody.
• Versatility: The versatility of the Celtics' roster allowed them many different combinations of players. Walton and Wedman both could come in and spell any other front court player, and their no-true-point-guard attack allowed either Ainge or DJ to bring the ball up, and let Sichting spell either one of them. Bird could also bring it up if he had to.
Other Teams
OK, but what about those other great teams, like the '66-67 Sixers, the '71-72 Lakers, the '86-87 Lakers, or the Bulls of the late '90s? To be candid, I never saw either of the first two teams play -- I’m not that old. So I won’t write about them and if you want to say that one of those teams was better, I’ll listen to your opinion. But I will talk about the two latter teams.
• 1986-87 Lakers: This team beat essentially the same Celtics team in the Finals, so they’re better, right? Wrong. That Celtics team was ravaged by injuries and really didn’t have its full compliment of players. In fact, Kevin McHale played on a broken foot and ultimately shortened his career because of it. So you really can’t say that was the same team, and yet they still gave the Lakers a tough six-game series. And they very well might have still beaten the Lakers that year if not for Magic’s clutch 'junior junior skyhook.' The healthy, hungry Celtics of the previous year would have beaten that Lakers team.
• 1995-96 Bulls: This team won more regular season games than any other in 1995-96. Jordan was the greatest ever, right? They’d beat that Celtic team, right? Wrong. The key here is the Celtics’ great frontcourt and the Bulls’ relatively weak center play. Sure, Rodman and Pippen were great defensive players. Either one of them probably could have given Bird a hard time and made him work for points. But remember, he averaged nearly 7 assists that year. Also, somebody would have still have had to guard McHale, and as I stated above, he was unstoppable down low. Remember, there were some good, very tall defensive post players in his day -- like Tree Rollins, Ralph Sampson, Marvin Webster, Hakeem, Manute Bol, Mark Eaton -- and none of them could stop McHale. And neither could Rodman nor Pippen. And that still left Parish, who would have scored easily over Luc Longley or the other Bulls centers. So sure, Jordan might have scored 40 a game, but in the end, the 1985-86 Celtics, my pick for best NBA team ever, would have triumphed."
