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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 2, 2005 4:16:32 GMT -5
There are thoughts among fans that losing Walker will mean we lose a lot more games this year than we did last year. Well, lets take a look at this a bit closer shall we:
Last year, prior to Antoine coming back, we were hovering around .500 for most of the year. So if Walker isn't back, its conceivable we'll at the very least be a .500 team.
But there's other factors that play in our favor, such as player development (namely Jefferson, Perkins, Reed, Delonte, Allen, Banks), the addition of a fighter-type of PF in Brian Scalabrine, and Doc Rivers getting to know his team a lot better with a year under his belt.
Jefferson got into the rotation as a rookie as the year progressed, and he came up big in the playoffs against Indiana. Reed and Perkins are set to play more this year, and they certainly should produce more than they have last year (with very minimal playing time). Delonte and Banks showed steady improvements throughout the year. And I'm feeling a strong year from Tony Allen.
Doc Rivers made a lot of questionable coaching decisions last year, but its to be expected because he was in his first year as coach of the Celtics and he had a very young team. He has a better idea of what to do now and we'll most likely see improvements in his decisions this year.
The addition of Brian Scalabrine should warrant better play from the backup PF spot than what Tom Gugliotta gave us last year. He's much scrappier and tougher than Googs and looks like a better garbage player.
Last year, we had a veteran PG in Gary Payton and he really helped hold down the fort. This year, we may not have a vet PG, depending on what Ainge does from now till the season starts. If we don't get a vet PG, we may struggle more than we'd like to anticipate.
Overall, I don't feel that we will be a disaster without Walker. He indeed helped us out when he came back last year at the trading deadline. But I don't feel that we need him around to be a good team in the long run.
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Post by celtics4ever on Aug 2, 2005 7:03:26 GMT -5
Depends on what Danny wants to do doesn't it? Would he conceive tanking even?
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Post by esco33 on Aug 2, 2005 9:12:51 GMT -5
I am taking the stance that it is good to let the young kids develop, but they need players to learn from. I am not sure they are ready in 2 or even 3 seasons to contribute right away. I was hoping that IF we trade Walker, then it should be for someone decent in return, either a point guard or big man.
The trade I heard floating around yesterday did sound intriguing, because we would have gotten a starting point guard (top 5 in the league in assts/48 min) and center in Williams and Wright. Trading away Walker for bench players/picks, I do not think is a good move. I have been behind almost every move that Ainge has made, but Walker was the X-factor for our team last season. Without him, we were mediocre. With him, we were competitive. We won the Atlantic because of him!
If we get rid of him just to clear salary, that is s a good move for the future, but do not expect us to be competitive this year unless we make another move. It will be a season of some exciting moments, where the young kids show flashes but more inconsistency, and us fans will need to have patience when our young guys make mistakes. Hopefully we will be a 500 hundred team, unless Ainge has another move up his sleeve. Knowing him, I think he probably does.
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Post by eddietours on Aug 2, 2005 10:07:44 GMT -5
so the deal is miami last year second round alberto miralles 2 future secound rounders a trade exception and mybe butler? that what the said on weei
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Post by esco33 on Aug 2, 2005 10:18:25 GMT -5
That's what floating around the net right now. I have heard different variations. Some include picks, some do not. Morales, Butler have been thrown around. Do you think it is conceivable, that we can still do a three-way trade with Memphis for Jason Williams?
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Post by esco33 on Aug 2, 2005 10:29:29 GMT -5
I am taking the stance that it is good to let the young kids develop, but they need players to learn from. I am not sure they are ready in 2 or even 3 seasons to contribute right away. I was hoping that IF we trade Walker, then it should be for someone decent in return, either a point guard or big man.
The trade I heard floating around yesterday did sound intriguing, because we would have gotten a starting point guard (top 5 in the league in assts/48 min) and center in Williams and Wright. Trading away Walker for bench players/picks, I do not think is a good move. I have been behind almost every move that Ainge has made, but Walker was the X-factor for our team last season. Without him, we were mediocre. With him, we were competitive. We won the Atlantic because of him!
If we get rid of him just to clear salary, that is s a good move for the future, but do not expect us to be competitive this year unless we make another move. It will be a season of some exciting moments, where the young kids show flashes but more inconsistency, and us fans will need to have patience when our young guys make mistakes. Hopefully we will be a 500 hundred team, unless Ainge has another move up his sleeve. Knowing him, I think he probably does.
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Post by eddietours on Aug 2, 2005 10:38:23 GMT -5
i think no one wants blount so we may just have to let him play and see if his stock will rise as for patience i wil enjoy this ride but i think it wont be that long of a wait to see them win games rememeber allen west jefferson are going to the second year and perkin and bank are going to the third year i forgot about reed.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 2, 2005 11:25:10 GMT -5
Albert Miralles, 2 second round picks, and some cash is what is being discussed for Walker.
Another one is out there saying that we won't take Miralles, and the only player we'd take is Rasual Butler, who we'd then cut for someone else to take. This allows us to not take any salary back in this trade. We would take 1 second rounder though. But what makes this trade scenario worth it is we'll be getting a 6 million dollar trade exemption to use on whoever we want, whenever we want. I'm guessing this means we can use it this year, or hold off until next year, or the following year.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 2, 2005 11:52:19 GMT -5
In yet another version of the possible trade with Miami, the Grizzlies are involved, and they'd send Antonio Burks to Miami, who would then send him to us.
I've done a quick search on Burks, since I wasn't tracking him in last year's daft, and I wouldn't want to waste time with this guy. I don't know if he's bad or anything like that--but he's in his second year in the league, and his track record as a PG (as a rookie for Memphis last year, and his 3 year college career at the U of Memphis) isn't anything special. The last thing we need is another young PG who desperately needs playing time to improve.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 2, 2005 12:13:14 GMT -5
The next question to ask is: How will Pierce feel about not having Antoine again? Will this be the final straw that breaks the camel's back? Or will it not affect his feelings about his future in Boston?
Pierce wasn't a happy camper for most of last season. But when Walker came back, we started winning right off the bat, and Pierce was a happy man once again. With Toine gone, will the smile fade once again, off of Pierce's face?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2005 13:25:42 GMT -5
Ainge wants to develop the young kids and thats why he isn't advocately looking for a veteran player who going to slow down their development. Anything we get for walker is a plus even if isn't the greatest value we could get for him (couple 2nd rounders? and a trade exception). I rather get something than nothing for Walker.
Far as Pierce goes, if he wants out he'll get his wish soon enough. This isn't about Pierce being happy it should be about how to get #17 in the rafters. If he doesn't like the direction ainge is taking, get your !!!GREENIAC!!! out of Boston. Free Agency doesn't win championships, building through the draft builds a dynasty. I rather lose a year to develop our players than be stuck as a middle of the pack team.
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Post by meltinjohn on Aug 2, 2005 16:40:33 GMT -5
Also losing this year would net us in the top 10 picks plus another pick from LA or Cleveland with the worst of the 3 going to Atlanta. Still not bad. You figure that would be 1 year into the lottery, get a steal and then win a yr ot two later. Its not as bad as it all sounds with Pierce and Walker gone.
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Post by goceltics34 on Aug 2, 2005 17:53:15 GMT -5
It's plain & simple as far as im concerned. Without walker were nothing more than a .500or below. The eastern conference has gotten way better in the offseason, even lower teams like the bucks have improved themselves. I love our youngsters, but they're not ready to compete on the level of a miami, detroit, or indiana. Look at what the cavs have done in the offseason, the knicks now have the best coach in the NBA. Larry brown is at least worth 8-10 wins.
Also where is the leadership going to come from when times get rough, pierce has already proven when things get hot around the collar, he whines and pouts, and that will be detrimental to our younger players. Walker relished being the team leader and spokesman, and pierce had no problem playing the supporting role off the court. We need to sign a veteran too hold the locker room afloat. If we begin to falter early volcano pierce could errupt at any moment.
Living here in miami its going to suck wacthing walker potentially win a title here in miami with these frontrunning, bandwagon jumping fans, trust me their already salavating at the thought of having walker.
Iwill always love my celtics thru and thru, i hope our guys are really working hard this offseason because, i think were definitely looking at a year of regression.
I would love to get woods from the heat. He's another young player with upside. Shaq wanted him in the playoff rotation. Lets hope for the best.
go celtics!!!!!!
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Post by eja117 on Aug 2, 2005 19:00:02 GMT -5
Didn't Woods get arrested cause he got cause got high cause he got hiiiigh. Na na na. He was gonna play bball but then he got high. He was gonna have a career but then he got high. He got waived by the Blazers and now we know why. It's cause he got high, cause he got high, cause he got hiiiiiigh
We have 3 high school players. Kobe, Garnett, T Mac and J Oneal all got good between their 2nd and 4th years. And there were no Walkers to slow them down. In fact T Mac and Oneal had to be traded to places where they could be the man to get good and the Lakers shipped out Eddie Jones for Kobe. Walker was great at going to the playoffs and losing. Now it's time to take a step forward, even if we have to take a step back first
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 2, 2005 19:23:12 GMT -5
I don't think we'll be bad as you say, GC34. Notice how much better we played when the kids were in the games? In many games where we needed a comeback, it was the kids (plus Ricky) who got us back into the game. They are ready for a bigger role. Not that they deserve 30+ minutes, but certainly more than what they were getting. Jefferson and Tony Allen only got like 15 minutes a game. That definitely needs to be upped.
Where the leadership will come from remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to see who takes it upon himself to be leader. Keep your eye on Jefferson. He has some leadership qualities in him that is going to show up sooner or later.
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