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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2005 15:51:14 GMT -5
I'd love to get T.J Ford along with Andrew Bogut but why would the Bucks trade them away for a guy they have already in Michael Redd? Yes, Pierce is more rounded as a player but you don't trade a pure-PG plus a 7 footer for a SG. It wouldn't make sense at all to do that.
Count me in drafting Rondo with our pick if we're in the lottery. Not a big Daniel Gibson fan either so not sure who I would draft after the top 10 picks are chosen. This isnt exactly a high quality draft to begin with.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 24, 2005 18:47:03 GMT -5
Sorry...but I would never do a Pierce for TJ Ford/Bogut deal.
I like both players, and TJ is a nice point guard...but he cannot shoot. I can shoot better than him. Bogut is a nice prospect but unproven. I would not trade a perennial all-star in Pierce for two "maybe" players.
Unless Gerald Green suddenly earns playing time and shows me that he can replace Pierce's stats, then I wouldn't do it.
I know you have to take chances in trades, and you have to give to get, but that deal would be too risky. Especially with Ford's spinal injury. Bogut seems like a decent player, but not a dominating one. He reminds me a lot of Yao Ming when he got drafted number 1.
Yao Ming is a decent center, probably one of the best in the league, but he is NOT dominating . I feel the same way about Bogut, and to give up Pierce for him, I would not do it.
I would rather trade away draft picks/bench players instead of my star player.
I know I have said this before, but we should have made that Baron Davis trade last year. Then it would have been a wrap.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 24, 2005 23:44:23 GMT -5
I'm really high on Andrew Bogut. He's going to be a better player than Yao. Bogut's feel for the game is incredible. Its hard to show you guys why I feel so strongly about this young big man, but I feel it in my gut that he's the real deal. He's going to be a cornerstone player teams build around. Off the charts instincts and one of the best pairs of hands on the face of this earth.
TJ's jumper is improving. Its still a work in progress, but his form is looking a lot more fluid this year. But aside from his shooting ability, its his ability to run a team and set players up that makes him a future stud.
Both of them are pieces you can build a team around. Add in Big Al Jefferson and Gerald Green in the mix, and you can see why I get light headed just thinking about the possibilities.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 25, 2005 16:24:07 GMT -5
I agree somewhat with your analysis of the proposed trade Derren, and agree that both are very intriguing prospects. Bogut has great instincts, and as a rookie halfway into the season he has already showed great flashes of what his potential may be.
TJ is more valuable for his point guard skills than for his shooting (Delonte West reversal), you are right.
Maybe part of the reason that I would not do a Pierce for Bogut/TJ trade is because I think it would never happen.
But even if Milwaukee would still be willing to do the trade, I would still hesitate trading our team's best player and captain, who is actually having one of the best Celtic player seasons in a long time, probably since Bird.
Now if it were a guarantee that Bogut would average 20 points, 12 rebounds, and be a solid defensive presence for 10 years, and TJ Ford would average 12 points, 8 assists for the next five years, then I would make the trade.
The thing is we do not know, and that is the risk involved in making trades. Therefore, I would not take the gamble, because I would know for sure what we have in Paul Pierce.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 25, 2005 19:51:46 GMT -5
Yes, I agree that its almost a guarantee that this trade will not go down (no matter how much I pray for it to happen ;D). For the reason you mentioned previously, the Bucks already have Michael Redd and have no need for Pierce.
As for your comment on trading away our best player and captain, I certainly feel we'll benefit from this swap. Pierce is having the best year statistically of his entire career, but we are still 3 games under .500 and look nowhere near like a consistent playoff team. I feel that we'd be a lot steadier and effective if we had a stud Center (and I do believe 20 and 10 is in the future for Bogut) and an assist generating machine as our 2 main parts of the engine, instead of building around a wing player. It hasn't worked for T-Mac, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, etc. All of them are awesome wing players who the team tried to build around. All of their teams did not succeed with a championship trophy because they didn't have a stud PG or big man.
I feel that we are in for the same strory with Pierce if we don't come up with a stud PG and Center (though Jefferson may make up for the lack of a stud Center). I like Perkins but I don't think he's truly the answer. And I don't feel that our PG situation is solved yet either.
I'm a traditionalist who thinks that is how teams should be built. But that's not the only blueprint for a successful team (see Chicago Bulls). There's no way that the Bucks trade Bogut and Ford, so I seriously hope Ainge can assemble a team that can win championships without having a stud Center or PG, if there's no other way.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 26, 2005 10:09:01 GMT -5
I truly believe if Perkins gets ample playing time, and is allowed to improve and progress, he can be a top 10 center in the NBA.
He already has the potential to dominate in rebounds and in blocks. (Derren, check out his per 48min stats)
He could be our Ben Wallace, and he is much bigger. Just be patient.
I do agree that we need a true stud point. I have NO idea how we will get him without trading Pierce. I say keep Pierce unless an UNBELIEVABLE deal comes along.
You guys do not realize how far back we would be if we trade Pierce. This year letting go of Toine and Payton would seem like nothing.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 26, 2005 15:55:55 GMT -5
With Perkins, I see his abilities, but I also see his limitations. His strong body allows him to seal off his man well, but if he's not in perfect position, his chances of rebounding go down significantly (big time rebounders can rebound even if they aren't in position to do so). He's also a good shot blocker, but his lack of quickness and explosiveness often leave him just short of blocking players who are not in his area code. He isn't quick off his feet so that's a big reason for this. Another area Perkins struggles at is scoring off of offensive rebounds. He's not good at tipping in missed shots (this requires a lot of touch) and he's not quick at putting shots back up once he grabs the offensive board. He tries to power it back up, but to do that, he coils himself up to gather enough explosiveness and by that time, defenses are all around him.
As a backup Center/Power Forward, I feel that Perkins will be one of the absolute best in the NBA, and in this slot, he could provide us with 20 - 25 minutes as a backup PF/C.
As a starter, I think he will be better than a lot of starting Centers, but will leave us wanting more when we play the top teams in the league.
I just feel that we could go farther with a Center who's more impactful than Perkins.
But I do like the kid. I hope I don't sound like a guy who wants him off the team. I much prefer him over Blount and would love to see Perkins taking all of Blount's time on the court. He's a lot better than Blount and he makes us better. But I'm thinking in terms of a dynasty, and if we can get ourselves a better Center than Perkins, I feel that our chances at creating a dynasty are much greater.
But I would love to see Perkins put my foot into my mouth ;D
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 27, 2005 0:20:10 GMT -5
Milwakee stock piled picks, plus got lucky w/ Redd and Bogut (the number #1 selection). The main issue is that the club wins too many game to garner a lottery pick, and always falls in no mans land. And, ironically the only year we have "2" lotto picks, we had Rick "I quit" Pitino.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 27, 2005 1:25:51 GMT -5
Yeah, how unfortunate are we to not be in position to cash in on a high lottery pick. We reached our absolute rock bottom during the Pitino and Carr era, but the best we could come out with was Antoine Walker (since we traded away Chauncy--thanks Rick). But that wasn't the only mistake Pitino made--he also used the 11th pick of the 2000 draft to grab Jerome Moiso. A lot of good players were on the board when he made that selection, including Desmond Mason, Q-Rich, Jamaal Magloire, Morris Petterson, Marko Jaric, and Michael Redd
Of course, the year after that, Chris Wallace continued with the butchering of draft picks by taking Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte, instead of Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallce, Jamal Tinsley, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur, and Bobby Simmons.
Ainge, who performs absolute magic with draft picks, has to make do with late lottery picks and late first rounders and second rounders.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2005 12:43:50 GMT -5
And he still does better
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Post by esco33 on Dec 27, 2005 14:03:25 GMT -5
If we would have played our cards right we could have had a lineup of: Billups Joe Johnson Paul Pierce Troy Murphy or Zach Randolph Jamaal Magloire or Kendrick Perkins Oh well. Our future lineup may be: Delonte West or  ? Gerald Green Ryan Gomes Al Jefferson Kendrick Perkins or Greg Oden??? |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 27, 2005 17:54:50 GMT -5
I definitely would have a heart attack if we landed Oden. Once he starts packing on some weight and once he learns how to get positioning, we are looking at the next big time shotblocker and rebounder. Offensively, he's nothing special, but with the offensive players we have on our team, all we need is a dominant defensive player clogging up the middle.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 27, 2005 23:32:54 GMT -5
Derren, that post touched me...showing how the Pitino/Wallace combo dominoed the current Celtics team.
One move not mentioned was trading our pick for "Potstenko" which would have landed us Andre Miller (a true point guard).
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 28, 2005 0:18:12 GMT -5
As much as I enjoyed Potapenko here, I do think Miller would have made more of a difference. I think Boston fans forget how awful this franchise was for so long and how the prior regime totally screwed us over with lousy drafts and not so smart player movements. Ainge has come in and has begun to get the ship going in the right course but yet they poke fun at him because he brings in players like Scalabrine and Dickau. Heck, I much rather have Scala and Dickau plus all the guys Ainge drafted rather than trading away Joe Johnson and Chauncy Billups and drafting Kedrick, Forte, and Jr Bremer.
Thank you very much, Mr. Ainge. I support you all the way.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 29, 2005 23:49:50 GMT -5
It only takes a few bad drafts, a little bit of bad luck, and some bad coaching, and any organization can go in the glutter like Boston.
Ainge, like you said, has taken an intelligent perspective and drafted players that will be solid, if not all-star players in the future. Boston needs to start winning to bring in the great free agents. Besides, we are somewhat cap strapped.
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