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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 18, 2006 3:24:06 GMT -5
that is why he throws coins at me when I run.
I thought he did it as an encouragement?
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Post by VI_CelticsFan on Jan 18, 2006 20:17:43 GMT -5
Hey watch it, E (sorry, VI_CelticsFan). I'm fine with you calling me E (VI_CeltiscFan is too long). It's E-Mac that i don't like anymore. But yeah I love Redick. He is an amazing shooter and a good overall scorer as well. I think RR is wrong about these dukies, I see a lot of promise in these two (JJ and Shelden). |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 18, 2006 23:09:49 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 18, 2006 23:24:50 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe that's why people throw coins at you ;D Just kidding, RR. I'm not that mean. Your outlook on the Duke players may be somewhat merited. But to avoid drafting Duke players, as I think is your motto, may be a costly mistake because JJ and Shelden look like they can be more than serviceable players in the NBA. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 18, 2006 23:47:59 GMT -5
Coins, only obstacles. Miles, and miles I run before I sleep. There has to be an exceptional Duke player to draft. Not this rift-raft that Duke produces. |
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Post by esco33 on Jan 22, 2006 10:49:04 GMT -5
The more and more I think about it, the more and more I see the Celtics drafting big this year, and I think Shelden is a good possibility for where we will be drafting (towards the middle-bottom of the lottery)
Also, there are multiple Duke players that have panned out RR. Don't hate. Grant Hill, Elton Brand (who I went to school with) Boozer when he is not injured, Shane Battier, etc...the list goes on.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 22, 2006 16:42:49 GMT -5
When I evaluate a player, I only take into consideration what the player has done in college, and his potential. Unfortunately, Duke players have not panned out in the pros. Being a McDonald's All-American, a college average/above average, then a pro "zero" isn't very impressive.
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Post by eja117 on Jan 22, 2006 17:14:30 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Would you say Laetner panner out? I admit he didn't become what people thought he would but I'd say if you go to an all star game you panned out. Trajan Langdon, Eric Meek, and William Avery didn't pan out. Cherokee Parks also didn't do much. But Brand, maggette, Battier, Boozer, and Duhon panned out. Hurley and Williams probably would have if not for horrific accidents. Dunleavy has been ok, but obviously not what he was supposed to be. But some of these guys got about what you expect. I mean what do you expect for an undrafted or 2nd rounder? I guess Chris Carawell didn't pan out, but what about Shavlick Randolph and Daniel ewing? Just the fact they have had so many picks says something. I guess we'll see if JJ, Williams, and McRoberts pan out, but all three would be 1rst rounders if they left today. Part of the problem is that Dukies actually play an extinct game of basketball called "smart team basketball". It went extinct in the late 80s after MJ was on all those ESPN highlight reels. In this brand of basketball you are only as smart as the guy next to you, so you can be a 3 time defensive player of the year in college (Battier) and look merely above average in the NBA, cause when you switch off and call out picks your teammates have no idea what you are doin. Also this brand of basketball requires a certain amount of role players and practice but in this league of stars where practice is a historical word (Iverson) Dukies definitely don't fit in.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 22, 2006 22:33:11 GMT -5
Duke recruits 12 McDonald's All-Americans. Average, 3 a year. Duke doesn't develop its players. In fact, some of its players digress, in college, then in the pros. I am not sure what it is? Do they lose the hunger, that they already made it to the top because they were an All-American?
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Post by esco33 on Jan 23, 2006 9:59:44 GMT -5
I don't agree RR. Every school is different, but every player is different as well. Some pan out. Others don't no matter what college they go to . It's hard to generalize something like that, that all players that go to a school never develop.
Actually, historically Duke has one of the best records of players staying 4 years and graduating. Up until the year 2000, no college basketball player ever left early before he graduated. Elton Brand was the first.
I agree a LOT of Duke players never panned out. Many were overrated. Who actually thought Trajan Langdon would be anything more than a shooter in the NBA? I sure didn't. Shane Battier actually surprised me. I still do not think he lived up to the hype though.
But there were players like Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Corey Magette that turned into formidable players in the NBA, just like any other school. Some players are busts. Some turn into players. Every player is different.
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Post by eja117 on Jan 23, 2006 11:53:08 GMT -5
You're saying Brand, Maggette, and Jay Williams regressed at Duke? Maybe Duhon. Maybe. He sure surprised people in the league. I don't know about Dunleavy. I don't think Boozer did.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 23, 2006 17:44:04 GMT -5
Brand is one Duke player that has improved his game since college. Plays w/ alot of heart, even though he plays for the Clips. In fact, I think he would have made more all-star teams if he played for another team.
On a side-note: 1999 the flood gates opened, and Duke players were leaving early (Brand, Avery, Maggette - alone that year); however this was a common trend in college hoops.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 23, 2006 17:57:07 GMT -5
Wait a minute, y'all are leaving out Cherokee Parks?!!! C'mon now, give the guy some love!! ;D
I think Esco hits it on the mark, RR. You can't hold it against a player just because he plays for a certain school.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 23, 2006 23:17:46 GMT -5
I didn't realize that this was "tag-team" the roadrunner. I was just pointing out that there was better chance of a Duke player failing to play to expectations vs. exceedinging expectations.  |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 24, 2006 3:20:20 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry RR. I didn't want it to seem like we were ganging up on you. Its not fair to be outnumbered 3 - 1. That's how I sometimes feel when I start saying that this team could play better without Pierce. Actually, when I start doing that, it becomes a 10 - 1 debate!!
Anyways, lets start fresh with the Duke program. We cannot look at the past, but instead, just look at the players from this year on. JJ could turn out to be a real solid player (IMO, better than Kyle Korver), Shelden could also be a solid pro, and I see some good things coming out of Greg Paulus.
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