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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 30, 2007 17:50:39 GMT -5
I know that getting Garnett will make us good RIGHT now, but we blow our tuture to pieces.
Look at what we're losing:
Big Al Jefferson: a potential 22 and 10 guy who can be a big time player in the post. Best young post player in the game. No doubt that he'll make All-Star teams in the future.
Gerald Green: Not as sure a thing as Jefferson, but his talents are very nice. He could turn out to be an excellent shooter and scorer. Could be a Richard Jefferson caliber player.
Ryan Gomes: My prediction for 6th man award winner for our team. He's a versatile player off the bench, and a really solid player. He can hit jumpers and take it to the rim. Plus, he's a terrific instinctual rebounder. He helps our bench big time.
Sebastian Telfair: He's still got a good sized ceiling, despite being in the league for 3 years. He may still be able to compete for the starting PG spot, but more likely be a backup. With his quickness and moxie, he can still turn a lot of heads.
And we'll lose out on 2 first round picks, further keeping young talent out of Boston. Those 1st rounders are valuable--with the way Ainge pulls gems out of the drafts, we'll be missing out on really good talent. I don't fret much about losing Theo Ratliff.
Does winning for the next 4 years make us feel better about losing for the next 15 years, once Pierce, KG, and R-Allen aren't playing at their top levels anymore? Losing Jefferson, Green, Gomes, Telfair, and 2 future 1st rounders destroys any hopes of having a bright future to look forward to.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 30, 2007 18:07:45 GMT -5
This is true. It is a ton to give up. The thing is a bright future doesn't guarantee us anything. It just seems to me like the NBA is kind of set up like fantasy bball and video games more than people think and gm's approach it like that. Put the best team you can on the floor and take advantage of your window while we can. Once this ride is over you can always rebuild again.
I dont necessarily like that approach. I used to love watching teams build longterm and build for the future. That was much more rewarding as a fan to be able to see a team really be built and build chemistry as well, and reap the rewards of that for years. But that doesn't happen anymore. We are living ina world of instant gratification. Free Agency changed all of that. I actually wrote a paper in college when professional sports changed like that. I was devastated because sports just arent like they used to be. True dynasties are far and in between these days.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 30, 2007 18:31:43 GMT -5
But even still, say we are able to win a championship or 2 with Pierce, KG, and R-Allen, we are still going to have to face the music that without young players who are going to replace the players in front of them, we are going to be a losing franchise once again--maybe for the next decade.
We lose a lot of young core players in this trade--core players who range from potential star caliber players, to solid backups.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 30, 2007 18:45:29 GMT -5
I agree with you. Plus with salaries the way they are we are going to be paying a ton for the trio of Pierce, Allen and Garnett. My only point is it's kind of a double edged sword. Say we keep all these young guys how are we going to be able to afford all of them and play all of them and keep them happy and win at the same time when they can walk to greener pastures just like that. Deals liek this are exciting but they also feel like you are making a deal with the devil because you are selling out in a lot of ways. I never liked that.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 30, 2007 19:29:14 GMT -5
This is getting ridiculous. Get real. Using this logic the Spurs should trade Duncan to the Bobcats for Sean May, Gerald Wallace, Felton, and Morrison and then turn around and say "well we have our future to think of."
Sitting around waiting for Nash, Dirk, Shaq, Duncan, and the Pistons to retire is not an option.
You know why it's not an option? Cause there are teams out there right now that have players right now better than our young players and YOUNGER. They are the Cavs, Blazers, Sonics, and probably the Magic.
We keep saying GG could be good. Bassy could be good. The 1rst rounders could be good. No NBA championship was ever ever won cause of could. KG IS one of the best players in the league TODAY. I want a championship yesterday, not when AL J turns 28.
We have a very very tiny window right now, while Lebron , Bosh, and D Howard can't win, in the East and we only have to face one team from the West in the finals and that team is getting older.
You like PP? This will extend his career by two years. Two good ones. Look at the Bulls and Wiz. 3 all stars on the Wiz. Great players on the Bulls. Mediocre with no chance whatsoever to win the finals. None whatsoever and no matter how good Loul Deng gets he will NEVER be as good Lebron. We were not at that level even. Maybe in three years. Look at the teams that died with one or two stars. The Kings. The Pacers. There was no guarantee whatsoever we would ever have reached that level. If this goes thru we will be a top top team in the East for years. There will be hardworking teams with no chance whatsoever of catching us for the next 3-4 years. I'm about to experience 4 of the best Celtics years of my life and I'm not going let anyone ruin it for me cause they think so and so COULD be a good player a few YEARS from now.
Even if in a few years the Twolves are making a run at the western crown you know what I'll do? I'll let you all say you told me so while I'm cleaning off my ESPN golden championship NBA commemorative back to back Celtics ball.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 30, 2007 20:07:13 GMT -5
well that's the thing. Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG and Perk is a better starting lineup than we can put out there. With Big Baby, Allen, and whoever else we can add we will be fine. We still have solid group of young role players in Rondo, Perk, Allen, Big Baby, Gomes surrounded by 3 top tier stars in Allen, Pierce, and Garnett and that is the way it probably should be. We've gotten rid of all the dead contracts. We've cleaned upt he roster. Not all the young guys were going to be able to get time. We now have the best players we can get and a group of solid roleplayers to go with them and that is how you win. Everyone will play that deserves to and everyone is happy. Jefferson is a good player and I can understand not wanting to let him go. But Telfair and Green were really expendable. We really stole Garnett imo. I think Jefferson is good but he isn't in Garnett's league as an all around player. You kind of have to look at it as what we really needed.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 30, 2007 20:19:23 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong--I think we are catapulted to the top of the east with Garnett on this team. I'm not sure if we have enough supporting bench depth to be contenders, but we are surely going to be a tough team to beat. Its going to be fun being a Celtics fan again.
But (and read carefully, because this is where I'm scratching my head) once the party ends, its going to be famine time once again in Boston. No way we are a top team with just Perkins, Rajon, and Tony Allen. So will we be content to be happy Celtics fans for just a few years, and then go back to our caves for the next decade as we try to build our talent level again? By yanking our talent level from under our feets in one fall swoop (and that's what it is losing Jefferson, Gerald, Gomes, and Telfair), we drain a big chunk of our present, and our future.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 30, 2007 20:23:13 GMT -5
This is like trading 15 years of Michael Redd for 5 years of MJ. It's a total steal.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 30, 2007 20:29:47 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong--I think we are catapulted to the top of the east with Garnett on this team. I'm not sure if we have enough supporting bench depth to be contenders, but we are surely going to be a tough team to beat. Its going to be fun being a Celtics fan again.But (and read carefully, because this is where I'm scratching my head) once the party ends, its going to be famine time once again in Boston. No way we are a top team with just Perkins, Rajon, and Tony Allen. So will we be content to be happy Celtics fans for just a few years, and then go back to our caves for the next decade as we try to build our talent level again? By yanking our talent level from under our feets in one fall swoop (and that's what it is losing Jefferson, Gerald, Gomes, and Telfair), we drain a big chunk of our present, and our future. No we won't be but if Ainge is in this for the long haul he can still continue to draft. It took him a few years to get to this point and he can do it again. I also dont think we are done. Right now this is our roster if the deal is consumated as I think it will be. PG-Rondo SG-Allen SF-Pierce PF-Garnett C-Perkins Bench *Allen, Big Baby and Gomes are key bench players if Gomes sticks. *We are going to add another pg who is a vet. We might add someone like PJ Brown or keep Kandi around. *Pruitt is the 3rd pg. Wallace provides depth at the swing position. Powe, Scal provide depth in the front court. I think we will have the depth when it's all said and done and we will be right there and challenge for a championship year after year for the next 4 or 5 years. |
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Post by eja117 on Jul 30, 2007 20:35:38 GMT -5
Derren that' exactly what happened to the Bulls and what will happen to San Antonio. So what?
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 30, 2007 21:00:07 GMT -5
You have to be aggressive. We could sit around and wait and be happy with what we have, but it's kind of like playing chess. You have make your move and be aggressive. This is a very aggressive move and I like it for that reason. It's puts us in the drivers seat. You hold your cards and you have to know when to deal and not to quote Kenny Rogers but it's gambling and you kind of have to be that way. You want to get the best players you can is the point. You see so many times where people want to trade 2 lesser players for one great one. there is a reason for that and why the person with the best player if he is smart wont give up that guy. I know it's not realistic but it is in a way and this is how i approach fantasy sports and i usually do really well, because i try to get the best possible player at each position that i can possibly get. i dont waste my time with mid tier players.
It's kind of like trump if you've ever played that card game. Garnett trumps Jefferson, Telfair, green and whoever else we give up because he is the best player. That said I watched the Cowboys build their dynasty in the early 90's by trading their best player in Herschel Walker, but this is different. we are making a move to get to the top. WAlker was their only asset and it was kind of similar to what we did with antoine. Minnesota was trying to get over the top and adding Herschel was supposed to be that guy. And we all know how that worked out. Hence why it's gambling. We are selling out and putting our hopes on Garnett, Pierce and Allen. I personally think it's a smart move, but with anything there is risk.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2007 23:08:44 GMT -5
We're losing a very good young big man prospect (might be special).
A Dunker who might have seen 5 minutes this year, a undersize bench PF, and two guys who won't even sniff any minutes for us. And the draft picks were basically throw in.
for
Top 5 player in the NBA at all positions....
I can't complain about that. Now all we need is to sign a couple veterans with the minimum size contracts to fill out our bench.
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Post by ferbo on Jul 31, 2007 0:35:32 GMT -5
IMHO DA is looking at Davis as a replacement for AJ in a few years, and is intrigued by Wallace, who he may envision being a replacement for PP down the way. GG as going to gete minutes behind PP. Wallace can probably do that moe nights better than GG as his strength is defense.
I don't know if this is good or bad.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 31, 2007 2:56:55 GMT -5
This is like trading 15 years of Michael Redd for 5 years of MJ. It's a total steal. that's a good comparision EJA. koolaid point. |
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 31, 2007 3:03:29 GMT -5
But (and read carefully, because this is where I'm scratching my head) once the party ends, its going to be famine time once again in Boston. No way we are a top team with just Perkins, Rajon, and Tony Allen. So will we be content to be happy Celtics fans for just a few years, and then go back to our caves for the next decade as we try to build our talent level again? By yanking our talent level from under our feets in one fall swoop (and that's what it is losing Jefferson, Gerald, Gomes, and Telfair), we drain a big chunk of our present, and our future. Why exactly would it take a decade to build up the talent we lost in this trade? The only player we lose of any significant value is AlJeff. Let's take a look at the rest: Gomes- Solid, undersized PF. Good player, but a dime a dozen. Telfair- Undersized, undertalented PG with off the court problems. I'm not exactly heartbroken he's gone. Green- He can jump. He can shoot from the outside. The rest of basketball is still a mystery to him. Swingman that could possibly be good? Again, players like him are a dime a dozen. |
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