cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jul 2, 2007 0:07:03 GMT -5
Jefferson really changed my opinion last year and I really dont want to trade him, but if we can get GArnett for Jefferson, Green, Ratliff and a future pick, I'm teetering on making this deal. If it were up to me I'd rather Danny just drafted all along and built for the future, and I don't like the hired gun theory but teaming GArnett with Pierce and Allen is very tempting. We can always rebuild again after our window is through. We were pretty much a basement dwelling team last year anyways. Just wondering what people think of Jefferson. I know he is good and his potential is really good for the next several years, but to get a player like Garnett. I feel like we are making a deal with the devil with some of these moves, but think about it. We have the opportunity to have Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett on the same team. That's an opportunity that doesnt come along very often. Garnett is one of the best defensive players in the league. What other player could impact this teams defense more than KG? Garnett with scorers like Paul and Ray could be really good. My main concern is these guys havent played together and coaching, but Rondo, Allen, Pierce, GArnett, Perk is a very good offensive and defensive team. That's by far the best team we can put out there, vs any marion or JO or whatever other deal may be out there.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Jul 2, 2007 0:21:51 GMT -5
One other thing is Pierce, Allen, Garnett none of them have a ring and they are all hungry for one. It might be fun to see them get one in boston together. 3 great players that played their careers with very little help might make for a good story. I dont see these guys resting on their laurels if they teamed up. I think they would play really hard. We lost 18 in a row without Pierce. How good would Minny be without Garnett? Seattle without Allen all these years? As much as people knock Pierce he always plays hard and has been nothing but a professional. All of them have been known as professionals for the most part considering their circumstance.
Whether we can get Garnett is another story. Jefferson is the guy Mchale really wants. Garnett didnt want to come here, but now that Wally is gone and Ray is here that may change.
I am very hesitant to trade Al. I like him a lot. Just wondering what people think if it came down to it. Say we have an opportunity to get Garnett but we have to give up Jefferson, what do you do? Do you give Pierce the best opportunity to win now? It's not like Al is crap. Pierce has Allen and Al now to defer to. I just worry about our defense. Al is not a difference maker like Garnett is on both ends of the floor at this point in his career, and he may never be. Gerald's another guy that has crazy potential but both he an Al are not at garnett's level right now.
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Post by ferbo on Jul 2, 2007 2:16:28 GMT -5
I am probably crazy, but I don't think there'll be that much difference in AJ and KGs stats at season's end. Defense is a different matter. You'd have 3 guys who have been THE main offensive option for years. And you'd be depending on a second year PG to distribute the ball. Bill Russell used to say that Satch Sanders was content with 6-8 shots per game. None of that for these 3.
I would think that a key will be whether or not Doc will keep Allen's mpg in the 30-35 range. If he comes back healthy, something like that should give him a better chance of remaining healthy and not breaking down.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 2, 2007 2:43:28 GMT -5
I am probably crazy, but I don't think there'll be that much difference in AJ and KGs stats at season's end. Defense is a different matter. You'd have 3 guys who have been THE main offensive option for years. And you'd be depending on a second year PG to distribute the ball. Bill Russell used to say that Satch Sanders was content with 6-8 shots per game. None of that for these 3. I would think that a key will be whether or not Doc will keep Allen's mpg in the 30-35 range. If he comes back healthy, something like that should give him a better chance of remaining healthy and not breaking down. There number may be close in some catagories (Rbs, Blks, fg%), KG's would still have the upper hand in steals, points, and assists. And the numbers dont show how much better KG is than Al right now. The second KG put on a jersey, he would be one of the best 10 best Celtics ever. I'm not sure if I would endorse such a trade (how do you trade a guy like Al?) but as of right now, Al vs, KG isnt even close. KG would be more than happy to be a third wheel on offense if it helped the team win. The biggest knock on KG is that he didnt take over offensively during crunch rime for the wolves. With PP and RA around, he wouldnt have to. |
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Post by birdie on Jul 2, 2007 12:36:48 GMT -5
He never go to Mass I think, I really wanna, but I'm sure he's not commin'
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 2, 2007 15:04:08 GMT -5
Nope, we are not overhyping Jefferson. The kid is the real deal, and its not just us Boston fans who are saying this. Almost every opposing team's color commentator say that Jefferson is the real deal also. Most are truly amazed at Jefferson's skill level in the post, and he's only scratching the surface--he's still got a midrange jumper that we only see once in awhile.
He's one of the most instinctive players we have on the team, and he's got a nose for rebounding. And his defense, once the weakest part of his game by far, is improving at a very rapid pace. He's a future 2 bpg big man.
Jefferson is not overhyped at all.
And I would not trade include him in a trade for Garnett, simply because Garnett is nearing the downward slope of his career soon and Jefferson is starting his ascent. In 5 years we'll see how smart we've been for holding onto Jefferson.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 2, 2007 15:42:20 GMT -5
I agree with you Derren, but I just wonder if you think he is a franchise type guy or not. I know he has amazing potential and he is very young, but will he ever be a top tier player like a Garnett. That I kind of doubt. I see him as a better version of Vin Baker without the drunkeness myself. Is he even as good as Chris Bosh or is more of a second tier allstar type. I like Jefferson a lot and I'm not knocking him at times last season he looked like an absolute monster and I wonder sometimes if I'm overrating him as well. I thought he was better than Chris Bosh at times, but if I look at it from a distance I feel like I'm overrating him. I personally like JEfferson and would take him over bosh because of his post play. He is a pure post player which those players are far and in between these days.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 2, 2007 16:05:45 GMT -5
If you are labeling Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Shaq as franchise players, then no, I don't think Jefferson is going to be a franchise player. I see him as a silver medal player (Chris Bosh/Paul Pierce level--second tier star type player). I don't think Jefferson will ever reach Kevin Garnett's level.
But here's where the conversation ends, in my book. If I were trading Jefferson for a 26 year old Garnett, I'd do it in a heartbeat--no questions asked. We'd be silly not to. But Garnett is not playing forever, and he's got a lot of wear and tear, and his treads are already showing on his tires.
Garnett will probably play at the gold medal level for a handful of years more, and after that, injuries and deterioration will start to come quickly and frequently. And unfortunately, we don't have the players surrounding Garnett and Pierce to make a run at the championship within the next 3 years.
I think both Jefferson and Gerald Green will play at the 2nd and 3rd tier star level with a few more years of development. And I think Rajon can be a top 6 PG in the NBA, and if Tony Allen makes a successful return from his injury, he's a borderline All-Star as well. With our bench depth, we can legitimately have a team that's 10 deep. I think we have good offensive players and good defensive players--I think we have enough strength and muscles, and I think we have enough finess and touch. I think we'll have the ability to push the tempo or play the halfcourt game. So I wouldn't mess this up for a short window of opportunity to win the East and fail to win the championship.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 2, 2007 16:11:43 GMT -5
Well said. I do think we need to add another defensive minded player in the middle though. I like that we have an efficient team for hte most part ability wise. Allen is a very efficent player if you watch him. There is very little wasted. Jefferson is the type of PF that can be that way as well. We have muscle in Perk and Big Baby, Powe. I still consider Al to be more of a finesse PF but he has come a long ways as far as playing the part. We still need a little more defense. We also need a pg with some experience as well imo.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 2, 2007 16:18:47 GMT -5
Garnett will probably play at the gold medal level for a handful of years more, and after that, injuries and deterioration will start to come quickly and frequently. And unfortunately, we don't have the players surrounding Garnett and Pierce to make a run at the championship within the next 3 years. If we added KG, we'd have the talent to win a title. Their is no better big three in the league than KG, PP, and RA. It remains to be seen if they would be able to put it all together, but yeah, the talent would def. be there. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 2, 2007 16:20:59 GMT -5
Fresh, if we went after KG, we'd have to include Jefferson, Rajon, Perk, and Gomes, maybe even Green. Who would we have left to fill out the roster behind of KG, PP, and RA?
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 2, 2007 16:43:50 GMT -5
Fresh, if we went after KG, we'd have to include Jefferson, Rajon, Perk, and Gomes, maybe even Green. Who would we have left to fill out the roster behind of KG, PP, and RA? I dont think we'd have to include all of those players. Besides, Minny couldnt pull off a move like that. They are shoty on roster spots as-is. My guess is that a KG/scrub for THeo/Telfair/Alfeff/Green/future #1 would do the trick. Our previous offer was the best that Minny was offered. Replacing the 07 #5 pcik with a future #1 would be a downgrade, but I still think it would be better than anything they've been offered so far. |
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jul 2, 2007 16:54:22 GMT -5
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 2, 2007 17:05:51 GMT -5
I dont think we'd have to include all of those players. Besides, Minny couldnt pull off a move like that. They are shoty on roster spots as-is. My guess is that a KG/scrub for THeo/Telfair/Alfeff/Green/future #1 would do the trick. Our previous offer was the best that Minny was offered. Replacing the 07 #5 pcik with a future #1 would be a downgrade, but I still think it would be better than anything they've been offered so far. Would you trade away Garnett for Jefferson and Green and a future 1st rounder? |
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Post by eja117 on Jul 2, 2007 19:01:43 GMT -5
I dont think we'd have to include all of those players. Besides, Minny couldnt pull off a move like that. They are shoty on roster spots as-is. My guess is that a KG/scrub for THeo/Telfair/Alfeff/Green/future #1 would do the trick. Our previous offer was the best that Minny was offered. Replacing the 07 #5 pcik with a future #1 would be a downgrade, but I still think it would be better than anything they've been offered so far. Would you trade away Garnett for Jefferson and Green and a future 1st rounder? If I were Minnesotta would I trade away Garnett for AL J AND GG AND a 1rst? In less than a heartbeat. I'd have to go to confession afterwards for feeling so dirty. |
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