|
Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 12, 2006 5:35:21 GMT -5
I think a lot of people in Celticsland are making Doc Rivers the scapegoat. A lot of C's fan see these kids beat up on NBDL level talent in the summer leagues and in pre-season, and fall in love with players that aren't very good. I think a lot of people on this, and many other boards, are blind to the fact that this team is young, doesn't match up that well, and just not that talented.
There is no coach in the league that is going to get this team playing defense in the near future. Every game our youngns make bonehead play after bonehead play on D. And why does that happen? It's not because Doc isn't playing the right defensive schemes. It's because these guys are making stupid rookie mistakes because, well, they are for the most part stupid rookies.
Sure, a coach like Larry Brown could come in and take us to the play-offs. And he would do it with our kids sitting the bench. Playing young players and winning rarely goes hand in hand.
Also, everyone seems to want every young player to get minutes. Powe needs minutes! Al needs minutes! Gomes needs minutes! There are only so many minutes to go around. Playing every one of them 16 minutes a night is a recipe for failure.
And don't think that I'm a Doc Rivers superfan. He does a lot of things that puzzle me. But there are some things he does well. He plays the kids. Does he play all of them? No, because we have too many of them. How exactly are you supposed to give all of your youngns minutes when you have 3 rookies a year added to the roster? And he is not a soft coach. He is chewing !!!GREENIAC!!! on an around the clock basis.
This team really has only one constant: Paul Pierce. The next closest thing to a constant is Wally, and he is hurt a lot. And the combo of Wally and Pierce causes its own problems on D because both are more suited for defending 3s, so a lot of time one of them must struggle guarding the faster 2s of the league. Al and Perk are both boom and bust. Delonte and Gomes both struggle on D(DW against quick 1s; Gomes against bigger 4s). Bassy will always struggle on D b/c of his size. Green still has lightyears to go on both sides of the ball. And Theo isnt really off to a swell start health wise either. We can laugh at Scabs all we want, but sadly enough, he is one of our more constant defenders.
I am not making arguement to keep Doc Rivers here. If we can find a great coach, go for it. But I will argue that we are some awesome team that is a coach away from being great.
|
|
|
Post by BCHISTORIAN on Nov 12, 2006 5:42:52 GMT -5
i agree that some of the youth has to go to make sure that others develop. however doc's game-time coaching is absolutley horrendous lately. i'm afraid that players know they can play better than that but one day may realize it's doc who's holding them back with his substituton paterns and other very, very weird decisions
|
|
|
Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 12, 2006 23:20:01 GMT -5
Fresh, I am seeing things along this line. We need to keep 4 - 5 of the best young players we have and let the others go. We aren't going to develop all of our young players, and it'll only waste precious time.
We then have to commit ourselves to playing these young kids we're holding onto and allow them to get the maximum amount of developmental time on the court, and this will take us a step backwards. But this is mandatory because they are the future key players on the team (not Wally, not Ratliff, not Scalabrine, etc). We may be a lottery team during this time, but its necessary to go through this process. Otherwise we will continue being a team on the verge of the playoffs, but with no real shot to go deep.
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 13, 2006 0:55:53 GMT -5
the more I think about it, I def, would like to see us explore a Pierce trade to Chi (as long as we got at least a prospect and this years CHI/NY pick). I think that having 2 high lotto picks in this draft would be a great start to a rebuilding process.
|
|
|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Nov 13, 2006 13:21:14 GMT -5
The best thing we can do for ourselves is set a 9 man rotation and simply go with it......
32 minute players - Pierce Wally West Perkins and Jefferson 20 minute players - Rondo(Telfair), Gomes(Scalabrine), Ratliffe(Olowakandi), Gerald Green (Tony Allen)
I have a feeling injuries and attrition will govern the playing time allotment - for instance how much of Scalabrine will we see once Jefferson returns.
No trades I believe are imminent. Not to sure about the coach though.
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 13, 2006 20:11:22 GMT -5
The best thing we can do for ourselves is set a 9 man rotation and simply go with it...... 32 minute players - Pierce Wally West Perkins and Jefferson 20 minute players - Rondo(Telfair), Gomes(Scalabrine), Ratliffe(Olowakandi), Gerald Green (Tony Allen) I have a feeling injuries and attrition will govern the playing time allotment - for instance how much of Scalabrine will we see once Jefferson returns. No trades I believe are imminent. Not to sure about the coach though. Pierce would raise all sorts of hell ifwe only played him 32 minutes a game.
|
|
|
Post by FLCeltsFan on Nov 13, 2006 22:51:06 GMT -5
The way Pierce played tonight he should have gotten less than 20. He really cost us the game between his 6 of 20 shooting, 5 turnovers and inability to guard anyone. And it is Doc's fault for leaving him in the whole second quarter and letting him force things instead of passing out to the open man.
|
|
|
Post by Celtic17 on Nov 14, 2006 0:09:17 GMT -5
It comes down to Doc again? Did it come down to Tommy, when Hondo played 40+ and had a bad game. Not to take blame off Rivers --- but the stars need to be in condition to play 48+.....
I don't like to waffle but PP is a captain and a star in this league. He might have something to do with his game too.
|
|
|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Nov 14, 2006 0:14:08 GMT -5
The best thing we can do for ourselves is set a 9 man rotation and simply go with it...... 32 minute players - Pierce Wally West Perkins and Jefferson 20 minute players - Rondo(Telfair), Gomes(Scalabrine), Ratliffe(Olowakandi), Gerald Green (Tony Allen) I have a feeling injuries and attrition will govern the playing time allotment - for instance how much of Scalabrine will we see once Jefferson returns. No trades I believe are imminent. Not to sure about the coach though. Pierce would raise all sorts of hell ifwe only played him 32 minutes a game. I would have benched Pierce's arse tonight if I were the coach, now go back and review the game notes, partner. And if PP whined to the media, I would have put him on the IL for 5 games just to show him who the Boss is. And if I'm coach and GM, he might well be on the auction block.
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 14, 2006 2:33:08 GMT -5
The problem with making Pierce mad is the more unhappy Pierce is, the more he !!!GREENIAC!!! and moans to the media, and the more his trade value plummets. Its a real sticky situation.
|
|
|
Post by FLCeltsFan on Nov 14, 2006 12:59:10 GMT -5
It comes down to Doc again? Did it come down to Tommy, when Hondo played 40+ and had a bad game. Not to take blame off Rivers --- but the stars need to be in condition to play 48+..... I don't like to waffle but PP is a captain and a star in this league. He might have something to do with his game too. Yes he should be incondition to play 48 and may sometimes when he is having a great game. But last night he struggled from start to end on both ends of the floor. A coach should be sensitive to his players and when a player is struggling like Pierce was, you to to another player and not keep going back to Pierce and certainly not play him the whole game. Put in Powe, give Green a chance, try something else. You don't ride a player who is obviously off his game. At least that is my opinion... I may be wrong but I think we would have done better had Doc not tried to go to Pierce every time down and if Doc wasn't going to him and he was breaking plays to get his own shot, then he doubly should have been on the bench.
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on Nov 14, 2006 22:56:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately, some of our young players have digressed rather than progressed. Which is a common trend in the NBA, not just limited to the Celtics. Truthfully, I think Doc has an issue that he doesn't know who to play, other than P2, Wallyworld, because everyone else is underdeveloped.
|
|
|
Post by eja117 on Nov 15, 2006 11:33:55 GMT -5
I kinda think it's cool that the players seem to be backing Doc (in today's Herald) and taking responsibility and I kinda agree with them that getting a new coach wouldn't necessarily be a cure-all but if they want to help their coach and they care about him so much they need to win some games.
|
|
|
Post by goceltics34 on Nov 15, 2006 13:38:48 GMT -5
I disagree with rivers being the scapegoat. The man wore out his welcome in orlando with Mcgrady, and he's about to do the same with pierce. He got outcoached in the playoff series two years ago against the pacers, and this team is a freakin joke.
All of these players arent rookies anymore. How many times do we have to see Tony allen turnover the ball because he's either palming or out of control on fastbreaks. It happens at least twice everygame.
Why cant we defend the pick & roll? How many times have our big's gotten caught up in a terrible mismacth with an opposing point guard. I could go on for days sighting rivers ineptitude as a coach. I could name you 10 coaches right now who would have the celtics at least at .500
Why hasnt kendrick perkins developed yet, this is his 3rd year with rivers. Andrew bynum of the lakers is in his second year out of high school, and has shown way more promise than perkins ever has. I'm tired of the excuses with rivers, he's a joke and needs to be canned as soon as possible.
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 15, 2006 23:43:50 GMT -5
Why hasnt kendrick perkins developed yet, this is his 3rd year with rivers. Maybe because he isnt as good as everyone around here thinks he is? This is what my original post is about. Everyone seems to think we are this awesome basketball team, and that Doc is the only thing that is holding us back. I'll guarantee that if we get a new coach there isn't going to be some miraculous turn around and all of a sudden guys like Perk are going to be averaging 25/15 a night. Once we get a new coach and we play the same level of basketball, the same complaints about Doc will fall on the new coach. Its a hell of a lot easier to blame the coach than it is to blame the players.
|
|