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Post by jb on Jun 28, 2006 7:30:42 GMT -5
I became a basketball fan, watching Bob Cousy display his passing, dribbling wizardry; what Red called "French pastry," in the old garden. My interest was re-ignited when "Tiny" Archibald and Larry Bird re-established the pass first, selfless play of that earlier era. I could watch "Magic" Johnson and the "ShowTime" Lakers all night long. Was I the only one jealous when Jason Williams was hitting fellow Sacramento players off the face, hands and chest, with clever passes, a few years ago? After a month of review; reading just about everything written about this draft and the players vieing to get in it, I am back where I started: "Point guard heaven." "Give me Sergio, or give me death." I don't care what it takes: trade down for a player and a pick, two picks, or take him at 7. This is the player I want to watch for the next 10 or 15 years, even if it means watching some team in a color other than green. And if Pierce and Groussbeck do pressure Ainge to trade Jefferson and Green for AI, I might be doing just that anyway. I do not like selfish play and selfish players and never will. What I do love is good movement; pass first, find the open man, TEAM ball. C'mon Danny bring it home!
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 28, 2006 11:03:31 GMT -5
Ainge talks about the "wow" moments he had while scouting the guys he's drafted (Delonte, Allen, Jefferson, Gerald) that made him like their games. I'm sure Ainge has had some "wow" moments watching Sergio. But at the same time, there may have been other players who's made him say "wow".
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Post by jb on Jun 28, 2006 14:49:30 GMT -5
Ainge talks about the "wow" moments he had while scouting the guys he's drafted (Delonte, Allen, Jefferson, Gerald) that made him like their games. I'm sure Ainge has had some "wow" moments watching Sergio. But at the same time, there may have been other players who's made him say "wow". Then I'll be fine with that, but do not want to se him pressured to trade two of our biggest "Wow!" guys, GGreen and Big Al for another selfish superstar, past the apex of his career, for a few more wins a year and then have to flush the whole thing down the toilet and start over, like the Sixers and T'Wolves.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2006 15:12:48 GMT -5
When it comes down to keeping your job, Winning is everything.
Its not like Ainge is in his 2 year as GM. He's going onto his 4th yr and there hasn't been any improvement in the win column. Yeah, I get excited when I see Gerald Green make a spectualar Dunk on a fast break steal or when Al gets a huge offensive rebound in traffic. But, when it comes to winning I rather see this team win ball games even its not the most exciting basketball to watch.
When someone like AI is available for the taking, A future hall of famer while were at it who still has roughly 3-4 years left of prime performance then you must make the deal especially at the price we're getting at.
Yes the potential is there for Green and Jefferson but, will they ever reach it? Even if they do eventually become great will they be in the celtics uniform? Its not like we have a huge window to find out as their contracts are up in two years.
So, the question is do we go for the sure thing or should we hope these guys will forfill our expectations? Thats the question that can drive a GM nuts. Because making deals like this could haunt you for the rest of your tenure.
With that said, I hope the AI deal happens but not at the cost they're mentioning with GG and AL involved. Wally + 7th and maybe either Green or AL would be a better deal than both players.
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Post by CelticsLoyalist on Jun 29, 2006 3:04:54 GMT -5
You know, both sides of this coin is where I often find myself. I'm not saying this because I am taking middle ground or to aviod choosing one point of view and fastidiously sticking by it. No. Not at all. It's just that I find myself at once thinking to a future in which the Celtics are "with the times" (whatever that may be) and progressive.
No one wants to see a tired Organization struggling to regain past glory and prove that it can still do it one more time. Hell, we did it 16 times already! But that may actually be the very problem! It is against all odds for one team to win that consistently (8 in a row). Them there are mob odds (figuratively.)! WE did it! And we are all too quick to put it 'round we did it. You know what I mean. Celtics fans can be real Bible thumpers (no offense).
In fact, I start to think, maybe it's all of us fans who keep this high and mighty view of the16 Time NBA Champion Boston Celtics as being such an unstoppable force. Which could not possibly be denied another title. After all, it's our destiny, right!? We have to win now and get the best players right now! No rebuilding crap. WE see other teams signing and trading and picking up good players to fill their roster. Fitting pieces of the puzzle one player at a time. We are, after all, trying to mold our team after the Kings, Mavs, and Suns, I think?
The other side of me, I think that winning only requires 5 guys who lay their bodies and therefor their hearts on the floor everynight. No one star, maybe more of a role model for the other players.
And it is a sin to expect less than #17. And that we can get back there using the "Red Auerbach formula" (I don't know what that means myself, so please no questions). And that it is in our blood, like a family member who always pays you back or is there for you when you're in need. And that all it takes is to keep steady on the course. That rebuilding is key to a future of a winning team. Rushing things could destroy chemistry and chemistry makes a team.
Only suicide drills, layup drills, staying hours after practice working on your jumper or conditioning will do it. So on so on so forth.
Basically, we are waiting for the next Russell, Larry, Kevin, Cheif etc to come walking through the door. The Crowd goes eerily quiet. Disbelief followed by a sense of invinciblity boils over into such a fever-pitch that it becomes so loud it actually resurrects the original Boston Garden through the floor of TD Banknorth Garden and entombs us all for 10 titles in a row (catches breath).
It all makes me wonder what if they are both equally wrong and equally right philosophies?
The more I analyze Ainge's mgt style, I find he is combining old school Celts with modern day NBA. I see he has been building through drafts, but this draft he is changing his stance a bit. He gave away a high lottery pick this time. He's picked up some Vets like he is mixing a stew together with our Rookies. If you look at it, he is doing what the Mavs and Suns have done. Building with Rookies will only get you so far.
This is why we have finally read all these rumors we are trying to get Garnett or Iverson. When was the last time we heard real tried and true rumors we were attempting to aquire other all-stars to play along side PP? WE've always been aprehensive about giving up the young prospects because they are building blocks. And as much as it is hard for me to say it, I think Szerbiak will be one of our role player who helps put us into the playoffs. I thought Ricky Davis could have been that too. But only if we get some more solid talent to get us over the hump. You have to admit, if we had Iverson, Wally, and Pierce.....it would be pretty sweet!
So, it appears we need a bit " let's not interupt the rebuilding process" and also, "it's time to win, we've given you 4 years". Let's hope that in the days and months to come we see some more puzzle pieces added. Cuz, we have to face the future and it is only fair to expect that the future includes winning. After all, were we not at least making it to our conference finals playoffs before Ainge?
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 29, 2006 4:11:34 GMT -5
Amen, Bos. I could hear the inspirational lone trumpet in the background as I read your piece. Yep, Ainge has done what he said he would do. He was going to draft smart, accumulate talent, trade some young talent to get better talent, and use free agency to pick up pieces to the puzzle. I've got caught in the cycle of wanting to hold onto all our draftees we've selected and hope they pan out to be the solid ~ star players we think they can become. I want to win a championship with all of our homegrown talent.
But sometimes, actually, most times, it doesn't work that way. To win championships, our top 8 players need to be better than the next team's top 8 players. And to get to that point, you have to make trades to get top talent onto the team.
But I just have such a hard time thinking of letting Jefferson and Gerald go to another team.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Jun 29, 2006 4:13:12 GMT -5
i would absolutely HATE to see gerald and al go. and perk.
i hope danny is wiser than that
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Post by CelticsLoyalist on Jun 29, 2006 4:20:42 GMT -5
You know what I hated was letting Joe Johnson go. But yeah, losing Al and Green right now would be wrong for us. We have not eben seen the tip of the iceburg from those two.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 29, 2006 4:30:56 GMT -5
I can honestly let Perk, Delonte, Allen, and Gomes go for the right price. But I cannot justify letting go of Jefferson and Gerald for anyone, aside from Lebron James. I don't think I'd even do it for Dwayne Wade.
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Post by CelticsLoyalist on Jun 29, 2006 4:34:39 GMT -5
Not even WADE!
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 29, 2006 4:38:43 GMT -5
You know, he's a super talent and all, but I'd be more than happy with Gerald and Jefferson, 2 future stars in their own rite, than 1 Dwayne Wade. Lebron is a mega uber superstar and for him I'd give up both youngsters.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Jun 29, 2006 6:49:59 GMT -5
i support derren in what he says about gerald and al. the two biggest untouchables
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Post by jb on Jun 29, 2006 7:39:49 GMT -5
Some very thoughful and articulate respones to this thread, have pretty well summed up the GM's dillema and the fans lament. My own two cents after the draft? Ainge kept to his word bringing in two pure point guards who like to push the tempo and shored up the interior defense with a cagy and still efective veteran. Obviously, if the right deal comes down, Danny will trade anyone, but with next years #1 gone (in the Rondo trade), it is less likely today that we can aquire Iverson or Garnette without gutting completely the hope for the future and I don't think either deal is happening unless Pierce is involved. Personally, I'm thrilled with the point guards and I've always wanted to see Ratliff play for the C's. He's the prototype interior defender and the ultimate, experienced, veteran leader, with grit, that we have long needed. The last move of the night, barely mentioned in today's papers, involves an undersized but strong power forward, Leon Pove, who brings plenty of offense to go with his tenacious rebounding. Pove led the Pac 10 in scoring and rebounding last season and appeared completely recovered from the reconstructive knee surgery that may have worried some teams, which let him slide. He could be the Gomes of this years draft.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 29, 2006 11:04:46 GMT -5
JB, I've considered the possibility of Pierce being in this Iverson trade talk as well. I mean, if the 76'ers are going to lose their superstar, they'd certainly want a star player in return (at least 1).
But I'm debating this over my head because it also appears that Ainge is trying to muster a deal that will get Iverson here to play with Pierce, and not replace him.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 29, 2006 11:35:07 GMT -5
And Philly is going into full rebuild mode and I think they would rather have young players. I think Iverson is as much a salary dump as it is looking for another all star. They want to go back to square one and build with youth. I think that getting Iverson is Danny's bid at getting Pierce to sign that extension.
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