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Post by meangreen on Mar 4, 2023 12:26:06 GMT -5
This is not an overreaction to last night's loss but it's a culmination of things that I've seen leading up to last night's loss. Say over the past year or so. Until the C's get rid of whatever you want to call last night's game they're not winning a championship. I don't know what you would term it (lack of killer instinct, overconfidence, etc) but last night isn't the only time we've seen this. It just so happens that it happened the way it did last night. A championship team does not loose games like that. I'm not saying we do it all the time. But it's happened enough in reg games & big games enough where its an issue. There was not one player, Tatum & Brown included to say "Ok guys. Get on my back we've fooled around long enough. We're going home." Title teams have someone on their team that does that & right now at least we don't. Yeah we can win in Cha w/Tatum scoring 50 getting his 50th w/everyone in the building knowing he's taking the shot to get it & the other team is basically powerless to do anything about it. Yes, we can show mettle & fortitude in Philly in being down, being up, being down again, & coming back to win it w/Al leading the comeback & winning on a big shot by Tatum in the clutch. But having said all that too many times the specter of what we saw last night haunts us too many times in big situations. Last year we couldn't defend home court because of it. I think I said it last year too that I don't remember a title team that couldn't defend their home court let alone any C's teams. Once other teams get wind of the fact that we're prone to performances like last night it'll be harder to put teams away. They'll have he mentality of all we have to do is just hang in there & they'll (we'll) melt. So basically what I'm saying is until whatever it is we saw last night is exorcised from our soul/spirit it very well may be looking at another lost opportunity at a title.
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Post by jmost on Mar 4, 2023 14:21:44 GMT -5
I've been kind of thinking along the same lines. Great teams have someone who steps up, says "give me the ball" hits 2 or 3 hoops, ends the opposition run, and puts the game away. I don't think we have anyone like that.
I've said this before, but I've begun to think of us as a front-running team, able to look spectacular when things are going well, but unable to stem the tide when they aren't.
And, I know this is sacrilegious, but if we lay an egg in the playoffs, which to me means losing to anyone other than the Bucks, I'd entertain the idea of breaking up Tatum and Brown. Don't ask me what that would look like, but in my mind it wouldn't necessarily be Tatum who we kept.
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Post by meangreen on Mar 4, 2023 17:55:15 GMT -5
You bring up a very interesting point Most. I live in the suburbs of Philly & now more than ever, more so amongst the fans, but now even some media people are saying that if the 6ers should only make it to the 2nd rd of the playoffs this year they should look to trade Embiid. He's been in the league what 7yrs or so & you're not going to get better years out of him than you have last yr & this year both of which are MVP caliber years. You would figure the coach would be gone & then the gm would be next on the hook who many are not sold on either. 'Cause if you decide to ride it out you could end up w/no title and your best asset now w/most of his trade value lost. So your thought of breaking up Tatum & Brown has already been a thought in my mind. I think I said it before here but last year I would've traded Brown for the [HASH]2 pk in the draft & taken the kid that Cle took Mobley but that's another story. Anyway, obviously you've seen a lot of Cs teams through the years & I've seen a few myself too and realize when windows are open/opening or closed/closing. I'm not saying the window is closed nor would I say it's closing. We're still a very good team & I think we're in a better position than Philly, but we've or will have some of the same type of decisions to make based on how the team performs. If you're the GM of either team you'd most certainly have to do your due diligence as a GM & at least see what guys like Embiid, Tatum, & Brown are worth on the market so that should the right opportunity actually come along you're prepared.
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 5, 2023 10:49:14 GMT -5
Good to see you meangreen.
I think BOS is a very good team, however not a great team. Now, in today's NBA there are no great teams, because of expansion, and the salary cap, hence BOS has an equal or better opportunity to win the NBA title along with less than a handful other teams. A game of match ups, or paper/rock/scissors. GM Brad Stevens has done a great job finding role players that want to win, and are happy with their role. Examples - Horford, White, Brogdon.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 7, 2023 15:43:22 GMT -5
And, I know this is sacrilegious, but if we lay an egg in the playoffs, which to me means losing to anyone other than the Bucks, I'd entertain the idea of breaking up Tatum and Brown. Don't ask me what that would look like, but in my mind it wouldn't necessarily be Tatum who we kept. If they lay an egg in the playoffs, you may have to consider it. I can't foresee a realistic trade I'd do for Tatum. I think he's still a guy that can lead a team to a title, but at this point in his career, he does still scare me a lot in late game moments. I love Brown, but one thing about his game is that he's seven seasons in and he still hasn't become much of a distributor. If he dribbles and isn't able to get to the hoop or get an open jumper, I don't have a lot of faith in him finding anyone else for an easy bucket. If he makes an all-nba team this year and qualifies for a super max, that's a ton of money to pay someone that can't create for others. All that said, wings that can average 25+ppg and play great defense are insanely valuable. I'd have to get a king's ransom for either. The one team that makes sense to me is Orlando. Some combo of Wendell and Isaac plus a ton of picks. My thinking is we use one pick to hopefully get a guard with high scoring upside, and then we use the other picks in a trade for another vet. Wendel is our Horford replacement, and Isaac is a wild card at this point. But if he could ever get healthy he'd be a very valuable piece. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 7, 2023 23:49:39 GMT -5
I think Tatum, and Brown work very well. The record speaks for itself. However, BOS lacks a third wing, hence forcing Coach Joe to ride the duo 35+ minutes a night. Great for the playoffs, not so good for the regular season.
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Post by jmost on Mar 8, 2023 11:51:24 GMT -5
We have too many big PG types to give everyone the minutes they deserve - White in particular. Meanwhile we could use another quality wing and more quality big men. If we keep Tatum and Brown together - which I know we probably will - then we can't keep putting Smart out there as the lead PG. Even with his improvement, he's a poor creator and a worse penetrator. This forces JT and JB into a role they're ill fit for, originating the offense. So when the opposition D clamps down, our offense bogs down. It's going on 5 years with the same stuff.
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 10, 2023 0:03:16 GMT -5
We have too many big PG types to give everyone the minutes they deserve - White in particular. Meanwhile we could use another quality wing and more quality big men. If we keep Tatum and Brown together - which I know we probably will - then we can't keep putting Smart out there as the lead PG. Even with his improvement, he's a poor creator and a worse penetrator. This forces JT and JB into a role they're ill fit for, originating the offense. So when the opposition D clamps down, our offense bogs down. It's going on 5 years with the same stuff. Smart/White/Brogdon, what a luxury to have. I am concerned w/ the bigs. Al is great, however aged (can not play back to backs); RW3 is always hurt; Grant is a tweener. |
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Post by meangreen on Mar 11, 2023 7:14:09 GMT -5
Good points/thoughts by all. Though I don't agree w/everything everyone's said, it's obvious that there's still some changes that need to be made & maybe big ones if we're to be a title team even for one year let alone more. So my question is are we the only ones who see this? I'm hoping that if Brad & his staff not only have seen at least what we've seen bvut have a plan w/the guts to make those decisions. As I said I live in the subs of Philly & the thought around here is growing that the team may need to trade Embiid to win a title. The thought around here also is that the team has no plans whatsoever to trade him & are going to ride the "process" thing into the ground. If you remember when that whole thing started w/them we were in as bad a shape as them but we were fortunate enough to have guys like DA, Brad, etc which have propelled us to the ECF & a finals appearances & we're still ahead of them IMHO. The difference now is do we have the vision & guts to trade Brown to make this team better should it come to that? Heck, it should be just about anyone on the team for that matter. I'm not saying just blow it up or trade people to trade them. I'm talking about what we've been talking about here. Seeing the flaws in this team, having done your due diligence as a GM, & are ready to make a move when/if the opportunity presents itself. I will say this I've more confidence in this front office than a lot of others. We've done a pretty good job IMHO of finding talent. Rarely have I seen us get a player who IMHO is a stiff, bust, doesn't contribute so it'll be interesting to see what they do...
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Post by jmost on Mar 11, 2023 8:21:29 GMT -5
Philly would be crazy to trade Embiid for anyone other than the draft rights to Wembenyama. I think he's playing better than ever.
For the Celtics, a lot is going to depend on how they perform in the playoffs this year. If they same late game offensive problems reoccur, it becomes obvious a change is needed.
If it were me I'd trade Smart, but I don't think know Brad has it in him to do that.
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Post by meangreen on Mar 11, 2023 12:20:27 GMT -5
Hey JMo..I'm w/you for the most part. I wouldn't trade Embiid right now. But if again this year Philly only makes it to the 2nd rd you'd have to at least entertain the thought of moving him. Last season & this season have been MVP seasons. People are starting to think about how many years does he have playing at that level playing the way he does? I don't know if you notice but people here do that for a guy his size he spends a lot of time on the floor as in falling down. It's one thing for a G or F to be picking themselves up off the ground which is no picnic but for a guy his size that's an awfully big building coming down to the ground & getting back up as much as he does. All that to say basically how many seasons do you have of Embiid at this level? You've to figure each year they don't get to the ECF or the finals that's another year lost for them. Al is probably the closest of your core guys right now where that decision is looming but the other guys you've some time on. The Cs again are ahead of Philly in having to make that decision about either Brown, Tatum, Smart, etc & have the luxury of having to make it later rather than sooner in contrast to Philly's case where I think it's the opposite. It'd be better for them to trade him as the saying goes one year too early rather than one year too late. I too am wondering if Brad has it in him to deal a guy like Smart let alone Brown, Tatum, Smart, or Al even. In order for this team to move forward to a title though he'll have to at least have it in him. Hopefully he's done his due diligence as I said before & has a value of what these guys are worth and a plan to move forward should the opportunity to deal comes...
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 12, 2023 22:36:44 GMT -5
Would BOS receive equal value for a trade? Is there a better fit? Same timeline?
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Post by meangreen on Mar 14, 2023 18:52:17 GMT -5
RR my man!...You asked some good questions 'cause they have almost all the answers in them. It would depend on when you trade say Brown/Tatum & to whom? As I said before if the GM has done his due diligence he's already gotten a read on the market for the player(s) and has targeted a team(s) who've the assets that will get a deal done. So let's say you decided to trade either Brown or Tatum in the near future you could get one of those Dononan Mitchell type deals IMHO. If you wait then more variables come into play I would think. How well are they playing? How well is the team playing? Are you in a position of having to trade them 'cause we underachieved in the playoffs thereby minimizing your leverage somewhat or did you have another chance at the title & fall just short again in which case you have some leeway which will help to maximize your leverage? You might think though that if we made it to the finals again this year that the chances of trading either would be slim & you'd probably be looking at moving maybe Smart, Al, etc...
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 15, 2023 22:45:18 GMT -5
RR my man!...You asked some good questions 'cause they have almost all the answers in them. It would depend on when you trade say Brown/Tatum & to whom? As I said before if the GM has done his due diligence he's already gotten a read on the market for the player(s) and has targeted a team(s) who've the assets that will get a deal done. So let's say you decided to trade either Brown or Tatum in the near future you could get one of those Dononan Mitchell type deals IMHO. If you wait then more variables come into play I would think. How well are they playing? How well is the team playing? Are you in a position of having to trade them 'cause we underachieved in the playoffs thereby minimizing your leverage somewhat or did you have another chance at the title & fall just short again in which case you have some leeway which will help to maximize your leverage? You might think though that if we made it to the finals again this year that the chances of trading either would be slim & you'd probably be looking at moving maybe Smart, Al, etc... So many choices. My hot take is that GM Brad has already been combing the market, and AGM Mike has been number crunching to make it work. Not sure there is a better player than Tatum or Brown that meets the criteria. The concern I have for this year's team, if the standings stay the same today, is that BOS would face MIA, PHI, MIL, then the WC champion, which means 4 series 6-7 games a piece. |
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Post by meangreen on Mar 19, 2023 16:36:41 GMT -5
RR. You just took the title of my next thread: I've some even more bad news for you guys:D For if we have to face Mia, Phi, Mil, we're not winning all of those series. I'm thinking we could beat Mia, & Philly and that's it. This team isn't going to win 4 straight series vs those teams IMHO let alone the finals...
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