Stevens declined this

[cf0022]

hardwoodhoudini.com/2022/01/28/boston-celtics-hawks-major-trade/

I believe it.  I think the Celtics value their players and they should.   Watching the Bengals go to the superbowl with Joe Burrow.  The Celtics may never be that or get to [HASH]1 or a top pick where they can draft a player like Burrow again.   That guy for them is Tatum and it helps to have a guy like Mixon who is experienced and has been around and is really coming into his own this year.   It also helps to have 2 stud WR's.

HUerter and Reddish may have solved mabe one issue  and possibly another for us but it wasn't enough.  That article on the other hand is saying the complete opposite.   For the Celtics it's about mentality to me.  People were down on the Bengals for years too.  Burrow gave them hope.

Like I said for us to trade Smart it's going to take better than that.  Reddish in turn got dealt to the knicks for a bag of chips.   I would have been interested in Huerter is the thing.   We have Jaylen Brown as it stands.   Reddish would have been gravy.   Reddish also wasn't sent their for a bag of chips.  He was sent for a protected 1st.  We could offer the same for a player like Huerter or the memphis pick and keep Smart.   

I would not have done that trade either.    It's going to take more than that.  

This also makes me think we just aren't trading Smart.  That deal is pretty good.  We need a 4 is the thing and another scorer off the bench.  I think Stevens have flat out determined that or we are close to it.   That we need to find another way to add a piece and are pretty much rolling with this team as is.

[cf0022]

Point being if we are the Bengals Tatum is Joe Burrow. Smart is Joe Mixon. Jaylen is Tee Higgins. Horford and Williams are our defense. Our bench is our bench. We are missing another scorer on offense.  WE could potentially make all these other moves I'm talking about but this team is not that far off as it stands either.

These leagues are like that now too.  There is more parity in the league.  There is more parity as far as what we can get via trade etc, etc.  Because people basically are spewing mediocrity and there has been an influx of talent and any team can win.  We aren't that far away.  Players can be had in other ways too compared to when Ainge did what he did.

Joe Burrow is what you want these days.  He's it.  He's the new TB12 but not quite.   Tatum basically is that for us.

it's your own fault for being in denial and spewing mediocrity and blaming me for it.  lol.

[jrmzt]

You're forgetting Jamarr Chase who is another superstar WR and first receiver taken in that draft. Thats about the same as having a no.1 pick. Take out all the QBs in the draft and you could argue that Micah Parsons or Jamarr Chase goes no.1.

And if I were to compare us to an NFL team...we're more like the Raiders. Carr is a good QB, maybe top ten but not close to top 5. Burrow on the other hand is up there and its the equivalent of having Ja Morant.

[cf0022]

I didn't forget him. I said we basically need another piece.  Which is why it's interesting Brad Stevens would decline that.   It tells me he doesn't really want to trade Smart unless it's something really good.  

Higgins, Chase, whoever else the  bengals have basically equals  Jaylen, Huerter, Reddish.   To go with Tatum who is Burrow.   Smart is Mixon.

Smart and Shroder are like those change of pace rbs you see.   It's like the patriots did with Blount and whoever else they had.  Smart is like Leonard Fournette to Tom Brady.    Mixon same thing.  They go up and down.  

[jrmzt]

And which player is the right amount of value for Smart?

Because personally I value him less than a healthy Malcolm Brogdon.

[cf0022]

I don't knwo what to say with that but that's the problem. It's how it fits to me. I'm looking at from a totally different way. It's what will get us to a championship.

The chargers for example have these rbs like ekeler. But they aren't going anymore right nwo. I'd say Malcolm Brogdan is probably on the same level as a player. Nice player. He needs touches.

The patriots were able to win superbowls with Blount and James White. The Bengals are doing it with Mixon who is a really underrated back imo because of how he plays. Just a good all around back.

Obviously running backs and pgs are different but there is some comparison there. It's how they fit into the team though and how the team plays.

[cf0022]

To me as far as trading Marcus it's going to take a situation where we are able to get in position to win a ring. Whether that's by ultimately being able to get the Aytons and Boookers of the world ultimately or not. Or build another way. I laid out all those scenarios. How I'm getting from point A to B I've tried to explain too.

People apparently don't think like that is the problem or understand what I'm doing.

This is a problem too when people assume peple are stupid.  I'm not doing that here.  Nor am I stupid.  I've tried to explain to the best of my abilities in every which way over the years.  People take things the wrong way regardless of how i do it which is a problem.   It's telling.  They assume people are stupid.  I'm not stupid.  It says something.

How I'm saying things and getting from point A to point B.  I get its a bit much all at once.  But there is logic to what I'm saying and how I'm saying it.  I'm using examples.

[cf0022]

There's also nothing wrong with Malcolm Brogdon either in and of himself. I would say Smart is pretty close to that and both players can succeed in the right situation. Totally different players though.

In football terms Smart is Lagarette Blount or Leonard Fournette but maybe a little better than that and Brogdon is Ekeler. or someone less sneaky quick and well rounded.   Smart to me is pretty similar to Mixon really.  He's better than he appears.  Marion Barber III but again MBIII was more just a wrecking ball.   BEast Mode was like that.  Smart is not really that.  He's more like Mixon.

It's clearly different but the similarities are there.  And are far as what we need to do and what we need if we trade smart is what I'm saying.   It needs to equal better somehow ultimately and a title.

[cf0022]

And I agree that's the thing. What people are proposing is difficult to do. There are only so many players out there that would accomplish that.  We need to actually improve our talent level somehow and be able to play players and have them fit.  Teams need to want to deal with us if we make deals.   We have to be getting something of value in return that teams are going to want etc, etc.

What I'm saying is not what you think if you actually read it and understand the context.  The context is key and I've tried to explain that in as many ways as possible.  And I'm not wrong or crazy.  I'm actually completely correct.  The internet is lacking that and doesn't understand that their ideas in no way shape or form actually work.

There are basically a few scenarios where it might. I've looked.

[cf0022]

The 3 scenarios basically involve A. Which is the KG, Ray, Pierce route but just with different players B. Standing pat and trying to add talent to our roster or C. Getting back younger players that actually fit and increase our talent level plus picks and roleplayers that do as well as our flexbility going forward.  Basically just increasing our talent level around tatum.

HOw we actually do those things there are also only certain ways we can do that.  It's basically philosophy and I have that in spades and understanding how the cap situation works and everything else and being able to maneuver within that with the players we currently have.

I'm using examples of how we can possibly get there and actually win a title.  There are basically 3 ways which can be mixed and matched somewhat.  Nothing I'm saying is set in stone like you are reading it.  Except that and the actual plaeyrs that might accomplish that.  I'm not naming every player.   


The deal that was offered there fit plan c.  Stevens declined it.  It was not enough.   It tells me he still prefers plan B.  I still prefer plan B because until someone shows me a deal that can lead us to A or C that works and is enough I'm declining it too.

[cf0022]

Also just to note AInge and how he got Ray and KG was not a direct path. I expect things to be different this time because the league has flattened out somewhat as far as deals you can make etc, etc. It took him unloading players for bad contracts and picks. I don't expect it to be exactly the same this time. But yes we can maneuver to get 3 max players plus Tatum if we trade Smart, Jaylen, HOrford and Shroder. That basically equals 90 million dollars and an increasing cap. Or 2. We could keep Jaylen and maneuver by dealing Smart, Horford and shroder plus clearing space other wise where we have 60 million dollars.

The key like i said is getting back something of value where we can actually do that.  And I've been saying that.   We can trade them off for that flexibility but we ultimately have to go that route or route C.  to ultimately get to a better place or we are just spinning our wheels.  

Like I've said.  I personally after looking at it don't think it's necessarily worth it.   I think the league has flattened out somewhat as far as trades and players etc, etc..  There is talent and deals that can be made.  It can be done.  I'm not saying that.   I think people want to trade all our players on what is a pipe dream when plan B is still best where we can still add talent and get there because the league has flattened out as far as deals and everything else.

[cf0022]

I'm basically really smart here. My one flaw is people understanding what I'm saying all at once because of their own walls. It's pure logic. even if i kept it short. I'd still have people misunderstanding me. My personality and everything. I'm not crazy. It's hilarious. If you can understand it.

I've been there done that and can communicate with people in other ways too.  Where i get along with people fine.  Other people have walls.  Just the internet trying to explain something somewhat complex that people just aren't going to understand.

[cf0022]

That's how I value smart though. I don't really care about trades so much. I'm just enjoying the games here.  I like plan B.  But if it were a trade we'd have to be getting back something that fits that not some pipe dream.  Read my other thread to get Plan A.  Plan B.   And PLan C.  if you are confused.  It has to fit into that and that's how i value Smart.   I like plan B.

We'd still need a 4.  I've said what i want.   An athletic 4.   A scorer off the  bench.  And flexibility as far as contracts and picks and other young talent.   This fits that and Stevens declined it.  It wasn't enough.   I'd want to trade off Horford and Shroder and gain more flexibility and rebuild via plan A or C.

It leads me to believe Stevens doesn't want to trade Smart either.  I would if I knew i was going to have those pieces in toher ways where i could get to a title.   For Huerter and Reddish alone that doesn't do that.

For one I think we can get a player like Huerter in another way and that might solve the problem by itself.    2.   Look at plan A and C   WE need more assets than just those two to be able to maneuver.  I'm not saying it has to be for smart.  But there have to be other deals being made including Horford ad Shroder.  Getting those 2 guys and sticking us with Horford and Shroder solves nothing.   We just lost Smart who could have enticed a team to deal with us and unload those guys.

By making this deal we basically just lost the chip we have whcih is Marcus Smart.   Trading Smart for two lesser players solves nothing.  We lost our chip.  We gain some flexibility blah blah and two plaeyrs that could help us sure.  We are now stuck with Horford and Shroder and risking losign 30 million dollars and have no chips to unload them.  We are now giving up picks to teams to unload them possibly.  I'm not saying that is the case but it's basically screwing our leverage in making deals.

[cf0022]

I don't think a team is going to give us a ton for Smart, Horford and Shroder as it stands. His value is more to the Celtics. I also think it's easier for us to try to get another scorer off the bench another way. It's all pretty negligible though like I've said. The way the league is now we may end up being stuck having to build that way too.

How i value him is what I said.   I'd want a couple players like was offered but I'd also want additional flexibility with Horford and Shroder or someone else that is going to put us in position to get a title where we actually improve.  The way the league is now that might not be  possible.   


This leads to believe Stevens was not able to get that for Horford as far as additional flexibility, and didn't want to trade the chip we have for what doesn't get us a title in any way or round about way.    It's like i said it's a lot of talk out there about what can't even be done or it would be.  A lot of you would just dump Smart for crap but that's not what is going to happen either.

It's why it's best to just enjoy the games and tune out the commentators too.

There are basically 3 ways we can build and win a title and actually improve.  In that other thread I listed them.  If those things can't be done there is no point in trading.  Obviously names can be changed around a bit and certain thigns but it's basically the same thing.

[cf0022]

As far as how much i value smart in simple terms. I guess Brogdon is a fair comparison. I wouldn't trade Smart for Brogdon though. Some players just have more value to the teams they are on. Smart I think can be a championship pg in the right situation or close to it. Similar to Rondo. Brogdan I never felt like he had that kind of value to any team he is on. It's like Mahomes and burrow. Mahomes has a ton of value to KC. Burrow to Cincy. You don't necessarily them for each other. I would put Smart ahead of Brogdon. How i value smart is what i said though. Either here or in a trade that makes sense and checks those boxes i said. This deal is not enough. I really like Huerser too on this team. Reddish is meh.

Guys liek Kemba Hayward I never felt like had a ton of value.   I value Smart more than both of them so what does that say.   Hayward played early in his career and made his money.   He is nothing more than a roleplayer now i don't overly value.  Kemba I feel the same way about.  Smart I do.  

In fantasy I took him 6th round.  Normally I would take him about 8th round but the way the draft was going I took him.  I still got the players i wanted later too.   IT was just how the draft fell.  Brogdon went 9th round.  Right after where i would normally take smart. I was looking at Brogdan there that's good value for him but i don't trade or draft that way.

Smart I would trade for more or less as well if it fit into what i'm talking about.  I don't make trades based on value that way.  Smart is a weird player that way.   I think his value to his team even if it's not the celtics is higher than it is Brogdon.  He's a better player.