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Post by cf0022 on Jan 24, 2022 7:26:41 GMT -5
When Ainge traded Walker, Walker was an older player than brown and had some serious holes to his game. He got back Raef, Jiri Welch and Chris Mills and a 1st round pick. How we ended up with Ray Allen in the end which caused KG to come here it's a totally different situation. Brown for one has been a non starter in other deals for better players because the Celtics want to build around he and Tatum supposedly. Tatum is still 23 years old so it could be a situation where we could go 3-5 years like last time but I'm guessing that wouldn't be the 1st option. Most of those deals are playing it like it is but don't make sense in other ways too.
I don't think the Celtics 1st option is to do that all over again. That's not a shake up. That's a total rebuild around Tatum. The league is totally different now where there should be better ways.
How we got Ray Allen was not even through that. We ended up with a high pick because we stunk and then parlayed it into Ray Allen. Which led to Jefferson being traded for KG. The situation is very different. Brown is still a young player. He should have more value than that in trades. So should Smart. They are both on more reasonable contracts too. Trading them so we stink so we get some later picks doesn't make a whle lot of sense. WE would need to then parlay that into Ray Allen and KG somehow which those players need to exist and they don't. Yes there is BEal out there. There is Anthony Davis. but again there needs to be a more clear vision of what we are trying to do and it shouldn't even necessarily be that. Dealing with OKC might make sense as a shake up. That makes sense to me.
This is not the same team when we had Pierce and Antoine. The league is also not the same. KG coming here was a freak thing because Ainge knew Mchale and basically fleeced him. Yes Bradley Beal is out there but again that would have to happen in short order. Anthony Davis coming here is crazy talk.
I can buy Ben Simmons somewhat although still probably not likely. Trading Brown to OKC for a young pg like Giddey and a pick makes some sense and doing a salary dump so we can sign beal and get picks in the process. I buy the Beal rumors somewhat. Sabonis too. AD coming here is crazy. All hapening in short order where none of those deals would accomplish that.
I can see us trying to build with Tatum and just a younger deeper more talented team around him. Or even Brown and just accumulating some better young talent. That makes sense but again we need players that are better than Smart and Brown. Or can compliment them. Ainge was overrated as a GM somewhat I agree. Smart and Brown aren't necessarily the end all be all. But there needs to be some vision of what we are trying to do.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 24, 2022 7:44:08 GMT -5
ALl this talk like the Celtics are a first class organization they need to prove that or people are going to start questioning that Doing another dump so we suck is all well and good but yeah. I really think there might be a really good player the next few years in the draft too. right now Doncic and Giannis are kind of Bird and Magic and the next Lebron or Jordan might be coming in the next 3 or 4 years I don't know. But we'd have to draft those players. And ainge missed Doncic and Giannis and didn't draft them and drafted Tatum and Brown as it is. And he did draft Tatum who is more George Gervin than Jordan or Bird but it can still work. If you trust ownership that much sure. I think if they have a vision of what they are doing great. But again.
Wyc and these guys are not Red Auerbach and there are more teams anyways now where I question how smart these guys really were anyways at t his point. I have some hopes for Stevens but he has to have a plan of some sort before we trade off the entire team besides tatum and some of the young guys for crap so we suck and some late picks. Young fans don't really care because they havent seen but after a w hile it becomes clear these GM's are hacks. If we get Beal great.
The reason i say this is because the current crop of NBA is what it is. There are some hopes of this or that. But again we would either need to draft right this time or land someone like AD. Both options seem crazy right now.
This team is not poor anymore where if they tank just for the sake of tanking with no actual plan they are completely stupid and should be run out of the league and so should the media.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 24, 2022 14:30:19 GMT -5
Here's another one where we supposedly replenish our bench depth hardwoodhoudini.com/2022/01/24/boston-celtics-schroder-okc-mock/I disagree. The media needs to do better than ust slinging garbage. That doesn't help our bench at all. Like i said there needs to be some sort of play whether we deal with OKC and try to get Giddey which may not even be possible. And clear cap to sign someone like beal. Or go in the tank where our own picks are better and we pick up additional picks somehow. Ainge was a good drafted and I would have picked who he did at most spots he was drafting. Trading for Ray and getting KG was a no brainer as far as proven talent to go with Pierce. But those pieces need to be there. I have faith in Stevens somewhat as far as making the right decisions. Ainge was overrated somewhat as a drafted though. We went in the tank. He missed Giannis. he could have let it play out and gotten Doncic the year after Pierce retired. There needs to be some vision. I agree we need better shooting. But we have been drafting guys like Pritchard, Nesmith who was the best "shooter" you could draft supposedly. OKC isn't going to just give Giddey away either if they even want to trade him at all. But Brown would probably make them think about it. We would then have to land Beal and have additional picks. Either that or going in the tank. We are waffling around 500. There is no guarantee we are going to be bad as it stands. there is no guarantee the celtics are going to pick the right players either. There are also only so many players in the league who can get us over the top. Tatum and BRown aren't bad. They are different than Antoine and Pierce imo. Pierce and Antoine would play balls to the wall and shoot like crap when they were together. Tatum and Brown don't really do that. They are more naturally gifted scorers who need to improve as playmakers. I agree that trade would make us worse if that is what we are trying to do and get a better draft pick this year. But why not say that? I have no issue with that either if that is what we are trying to do. I looked at the bottom feeding teams. And other than salary dumps there aren't many players out there that are going to be difference makers on this team. There probably are young playersr ready to break through like IT was. But not many right now. Players like Meledon aren't really it. Not bad but not it. Kyra Lewis etc, etc. Project type players but they really are nothing more than Marcus Banks at this point. If this team is going to go full rebuild mode it more than likely would have to be through the draft and hoping we get someone like Beal because other than that most players in the league have been picked apart. Or a mix of veterans that are being overlooked somewhere. The issue with that is we wouldn't be bad. I also wouldn't overlook San Antonio as a possible trading partner just because Udoka has ties there if we want quality roleplayers back. Trading Brown there or Smart is not out of the question if it equals even someone like Keldon Johnson and draft picks. So basically Brown to OKC for Giddey and picks or SA for Keldon Johnson and picks. That would actually help our bench depth. Other trades are basically us just dumping players so we are really bad and a salary dump and can pick up some draft picks and gain cap space. Orlando has Wagner and a bunch of guys too. A team like Cleveland has a bunch of guys and is one of those middling teams may be interested in a player like Brown as well. Same with the Mavericks. Players like Cedi Osman etc. The Mavericks could want either Brown or Smart or both. Jalen Brunson is decent. If we trade BRown or SMart either way we have to be getting back something of value whether it's a total dump and cap space and picks, or players that can play roles on the team ultimately whether it's shooting or a pg or whatever. Enes Freedom, Schroder and Horford are a whole other ball of wax. There's a lot of work to be done if we go that route.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 24, 2022 17:24:01 GMT -5
My opinion is we should be buyers at the deadline not sellers and what i said in the first place and be lookng to build around these guys. Players like Simmons, Sabonis and there are probably going to be other players that fall through the cracks. The other route is an option but crazy to think about right now. I think Brown is not Antoine Walker. And Tatum is not Pierce. I think they are still very young. They are borderline somewhat but Jaylen is still 25 years old. We put a couple nice pieces around them that fit better than the Kemba's and Horfords of the world did we will be right back there and better for it imo. Jaylen and Tatum will be more experienced etc, etc.. They need a couple guys to help take the pressure off them. Teams are not going to want to pay big money to some players. I dont know what keldon johnson's deal is but just an example but players like that that are up for bigger deals and ready to break through that teams don't want to pay might take schroder or horfords contract back and want to go in the tank.
I agree we need a better pg. But that doesn't mean we should move Smart either. We need someone better than Schroder and someone who can distribute and knock down 3's. And a nice bench piece, 6th man type player that can take some of the pressure off Jaylen and Tatum. SOmeone younger than Horford who can give us energy. We basically need our Tony Kukoc or whatever..
Going the other route is too much and takes vision. I have a vision of what that would look like is the thing. It would mean getting someone like Giddey and Beal and adding shooting through the draft or whatever. It's just kind of crazy to do all that when we have Smart and Brown already unless it's absolutely necessary. Or a trade with Dallas or Cleveland or something like that.
Smart and Brown are fine for the most part unless something really good comes along.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 24, 2022 17:34:17 GMT -5
All that lol and we should be targetting Derrick White imo. Problem solved. I'm a freakin genius. Whether the spurs will trade us Derrick White I don't know. I would give up Shroder and the memphis pick for Derrick white no questions asked. All this other stuff like clearing cap to sign beal to replace Brown is too much right now. If the spurs want to send us Keldon Johnson too great. Because that's what we need imo. They can have Romeo and Nesmith and another pick for that. We can then unload Horford somewhere. Go into free agency this offseason and we will be nba champs next year. Dallas has players like that too. Brunson would fit in ways. Porzingis. That's not as cut and dry though.
I think Derrick White would be a good choice. Still two weeks. But I did a lot of work there. We have been aquiring all these 2nd round picks where we can find shooting that way. We can give up first round picks to potentially get a player like White and that's the type of player I'd be targetting.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 25, 2022 16:37:35 GMT -5
Mike Conley is old, and still has two years left (think like 24 mil per), but I wonder what a solid floor general like Conley could do for the Jays and RWill?
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Post by jmost on Jan 25, 2022 17:28:28 GMT -5
Mike Conley is old, and still has two years left (think like 24 mil per), but I wonder what a solid floor general like Conley could do for the Jays and RWill? He'd help, but would he be around long enough to lead us anywhere meaningful? I guess you could have said the same about Chris Paul and PHX though.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 25, 2022 17:33:51 GMT -5
Conley strikes me as a guy who could really stick around the nba as a guy who is a stop gap like you said because he's old but could outplay his years as a veteran pg on a championship team. Why i wouldn't necessarily trade Smart unless we feel Romeo or Jaylen can faciliate. I think he could out play his years though as a vet. Like Rondo really. He just keeps going. Conley would more be a starter potentially though and good in a mix at pg where he could play a while.
He needs rest. He gets injured. BUt I think that is overplayed. He's pretty solid. He would be like Kenny Anderson was but better in a mix and with the right team around him. I think he can play longer too.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 25, 2022 20:10:45 GMT -5
Don't sleep on Barnes either. The kings may be looking to unload salary. He gets injured a lot and might not be an upgrade over Hayward or Kemba much but our team is improving in other ways. He'd be a good fit here. The Celtics were really interested in him and he could be potentially had. That would be a simple solution to keep teams from doubling Tatum and Brown. Conley and Barnes I would accept.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 26, 2022 0:04:29 GMT -5
Mike Conley is old, and still has two years left (think like 24 mil per), but I wonder what a solid floor general like Conley could do for the Jays and RWill? He'd help, but would he be around long enough to lead us anywhere meaningful? I guess you could have said the same about Chris Paul and PHX though. CP3 was a revelation in Pheonix..but I dont see Conley being anywhere near the level of CP3 even throughout his entire career. If we are looking for a floor general veteran, I'd be looking at trying to swing a deal for Dejounte Murray and see what it would take to grab him off the Spurs. He is a star that is on a similar trajectory to the Jays.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 26, 2022 3:54:07 GMT -5
I don't think the C's could get Murray unless we traded Jaylen. He's so damn good, and his contract is fairly reasonable.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 26, 2022 22:47:49 GMT -5
I don't think the C's could get Murray unless we traded Jaylen. He's so damn good, and his contract is fairly reasonable. Addition by subtraction. If giving up Brown means that we get Murray and Murray is able to lift the entire team and make us better...then it could be worth it. I'm thinking of how deadly a Murray & RobWill combo could be.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 27, 2022 3:40:07 GMT -5
On that note, this is completely pie in the sky stuff, but i'd love to see the C's make a move for John Wall if he's cut this off-season. He may only have a couple years left in the tank, and he certainly isn't what he once was, but a Wall/Will PnR combo would be absolutely lethal.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 27, 2022 4:26:01 GMT -5
I'd be down for that. Wall doesn't have the same speed he once had but he has always had good court vision. It'd be interesting to see whether he can transition to the next stages of his career.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 27, 2022 9:23:54 GMT -5
Smart for Huerter and Redish? Apparently that was discussed before ATL sent Redish to the Knicks.
Brad trying to bring in shooters.
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