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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 1, 2018 12:53:12 GMT -5
If Trader Danny makes a trade, it needs to make sense positionally. Gone are the days when we were looking to upgrade talent at EVERY position. Now we have All-Stars and potential All-Stars at all 5 starting positions. And we are especially strong at the wing (shooting guard and small forward spots), where we have Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown looking to log heavy minutes.
To me, it doesn't make sense to trade for Kawhi Leonard, even though he's an elite talent, because he plays the position we are already stacked at. But would Ainge go ahead and do it anyway (say, trade Jaylen and other parts for Kawhi)? At the ball handling position (PG), we have Kyrie, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart. Do we need an upgrade here?
At the Big (PF and C), we have Al Horford, Baynes and Theis. Could Ainge target an upgrade here via trade?
Here's the thing -- I think our time to win championships starts from the 2018-2019 season. The window to win is open now, and coming short next season ruins a prime opportunity at a string of titles. Horford is in his 30's and has only 2 years remaining on his contract (player option after next season). Kyrie is going to be up for a new contract at the same time as Horford. In 3 years, we are going to have to make a big decision about Jaylen Brown if he's still here, at the same time we'll need to decide on Gordon Hayward. Tatum's time for a massive contract will come in 4 years.
So this core, we're looking at a 2 - 4 year window, before we have to make some big alterations. To me, we need to make sure we have heavy artilery to win a championship this upcoming season. That's why I think Ainge needs to strike this summer and get another big piece to the puzzle -- an All-Star who cements us as favorites, even above the Golden State Warriors. The question is, at which position could this talent upgrade be?
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Post by mev17 on Jun 1, 2018 12:58:53 GMT -5
I would say big simply because we are probably thinnest on bigs, we may lose baynes as a free agent and we are oldest at that spot.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 1, 2018 19:56:12 GMT -5
I would say big simply because we are probably thinnest on bigs, we may lose baynes as a free agent and we are oldest at that spot. I agree! |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jun 1, 2018 22:55:59 GMT -5
BOS is loaded at the swings, and ball handlers. Bigs?
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 4, 2018 18:23:52 GMT -5
Question to you all: do you think rolling out a lineup of Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen and Kyrie would constitute a championship caliber starting 5 from a positional standpoint?
What I'm getting at is, do you think Tatum at the 4 is wise, or that it'll work?
We all see a need to upgrade at the Bigs, and I don't think plugging Tatum there just so we can play Hayward, Jaylen and Tatum together is going to solve that.
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Post by afceltic on Jun 4, 2018 19:06:34 GMT -5
Question to you all: do you think rolling out a lineup of Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen and Kyrie would constitute a championship caliber starting 5 from a positional standpoint? What I'm getting at is, do you think Tatum at the 4 is wise, or that it'll work? We all see a need to upgrade at the Bigs, and I don't think plugging Tatum there just so we can play Hayward, Jaylen and Tatum together is going to solve that. That may be our version of GSW's "death" lineup to put games away, but it won't be our starting lineup. One of the young guys is going to have to go to the bench which will likely be Brown. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 4, 2018 19:13:56 GMT -5
Question to you all: do you think rolling out a lineup of Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen and Kyrie would constitute a championship caliber starting 5 from a positional standpoint? What I'm getting at is, do you think Tatum at the 4 is wise, or that it'll work? We all see a need to upgrade at the Bigs, and I don't think plugging Tatum there just so we can play Hayward, Jaylen and Tatum together is going to solve that. That may be our version of GSW's "death" lineup to put games away, but it won't be our starting lineup. One of the young guys is going to have to go to the bench which will likely be Brown. And taking what you said in the "To beat GSW" thread, what we need is a big so that we can have Horford play the 4 and Tatum at the 3. Maybe that's why we're hearing Ainge is trying to move up in this draft -- a draft top heavy with big men, such as Ayton, Bagley, Carter, Jackson and Bamba. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Jun 4, 2018 22:59:25 GMT -5
Question to you all: do you think rolling out a lineup of Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen and Kyrie would constitute a championship caliber starting 5 from a positional standpoint? What I'm getting at is, do you think Tatum at the 4 is wise, or that it'll work? We all see a need to upgrade at the Bigs, and I don't think plugging Tatum there just so we can play Hayward, Jaylen and Tatum together is going to solve that. Yes, however Hayward played 5-minutes last year, and Irving was only good for 60-games. Those are big IFS. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 4, 2018 23:50:10 GMT -5
Question to you all: do you think rolling out a lineup of Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen and Kyrie would constitute a championship caliber starting 5 from a positional standpoint? What I'm getting at is, do you think Tatum at the 4 is wise, or that it'll work? We all see a need to upgrade at the Bigs, and I don't think plugging Tatum there just so we can play Hayward, Jaylen and Tatum together is going to solve that. Yes, however Hayward played 5-minutes last year, and Irving was only good for 60-games. Those are big IFS. We'll never know. A fully healthy team (including Theis), may have very well beaten the Cavs to reach the Finals, and may possibly have been good enough to take down the Warriors. Who knows? But we'll have a shot again next year, and we need to make sure we have all the right artillery, with guns fully loaded, with only microscopic chinks in our armor. |
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Post by jmost on Jun 5, 2018 13:06:57 GMT -5
I think a starting lineup of KI, JB, GH, JT and AH is championship caliber IF we are playing the right team. I don't think GS's bigs scare anyone. Pachulia? McGee? No. Their best team has KD at PF and Green at C. We match up ok with that. I think where we could struggle is against teams like Philly, or anyone else with a true dominant center. But even so, you don't have to be dominant at every position to compete for a title. The Pistons won with Laimbeer, the Bulls with Bill Cartwright and Luke Longley. We won with Perk.
I'd love to add someone who could battle the Embiids of the NBA straight up and hold their own, but not having that player doesn't mean we can't win a title.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 5, 2018 13:34:22 GMT -5
I think it's passable to have a league average player at one of the starting positions -- as long as most of the other starters are elite level.
Luc Longley, Bill Cartright, and Bill Wennington played with Jordan, Pippen, Grant, Rodman, etc. Perk played with KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo. The Warriors are starting ZaZa Pachulia, but the rest are studs. Laimbeer had a stacked team also (though no elite player, unless we're calling Isiah Thomas elite).
By elite, I mean most often than not, you'll beat your matchup -- meaning you can score on your matchup, or win rebound battles against your matchup, or shut your matchup down defensively. Kyrie is an elite scorer (he can most often times beat his man and score). Hayward is terrific, but not elite. Tatum is heading there, but not elite yet.
We have a lot of terrific defenders, but none are elite (Kawhi Leonard level). We do not have an elite rebounder or shot blocker.
I'm not saying we cannot beat the Warriors as currently constructed (I've learned never to underestimate this team or Brad Stevens). It'll just be harder than I'd like it to be.
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Post by eddietours on Jun 5, 2018 14:34:33 GMT -5
when you look at Houston, Cavs's and warrior i think we are Better on the D side
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Post by jmost on Jun 5, 2018 15:12:13 GMT -5
Apparently my spelling needs work. Luke/Luc and Cartwright/Cartright. Should have googled them.
I don't know that you need elite individual defenders to be an elite defensive team. The Pistons won mostly with their D, and IT and Laimbeer were average defenders. Rodman was elite, and Dumars was very good. It helps a lot to have a human eraser, because it masks others' deficiencies, but I think you can get by without one. Even the Bird Celtics were probably an average defensive team, maybe slightly above average. None of them was elite defensively although McHale and DJ were damn good.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 5, 2018 17:53:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd agree with you both. We're better defensively than the Cavs and the Rockets, but also, we do not need to have elite individual defenders to be champs (though it'll help greatly).
What I'm trying to say is we can live with a decent starting big, if his teammates can more than carry him and make up for the loss.
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Post by jmost on Jun 5, 2018 18:20:51 GMT -5
Yup. I can't think of many champions who were elite at every position. The Celtics of the 60's probably came as close as anyone, with future Hall-of-Famers sitting on the bench while they waited their turn. I mean, Sam Jones and Havlicek would form the core of any modern Big 3 and they were bench guys in the early 60's.
The nature of the salary cap, especially the luxury tax for being over the cap several years running, may make it almost impossible to have elite players at every position - UNLESS you are someone like Steve Ballmer who is worth $39 billion and for whom a penalty of $100 million per year is less than 1/3 of 1% of his net worth.
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