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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 16:56:50 GMT -5
Could it be that, more than Fultz or Jackson, what Ainge values more are the future draft picks he's trying to pry from Philly?
Fultz and Jackson are nice, but they are not looked upon as generational talent. But in the coming drafts, there are guys coming out that have the potential to be.
We may be getting caught up on Fultz and Jackson, but Ainge is looking beyond them, and has his eyes set on what's over the horizon.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 17, 2017 17:02:01 GMT -5
Good point, Derren. I've also seen people saying that the picks are possibly to make a big pitch for a star like Anthony Davis. Yes, it is possible that he likes both players the same and wants the picks. We have seen before that Danny looks 2 moves ahead when he does something.
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 17:08:36 GMT -5
One rumor I heard is that the picks could be conditional which would make me puke. The worst iteration I heard is the Lakers/Sixers with complicated protections and a possible 2021 pick. That's beyond unacceptable to me. Absurd. The 2021 pick would be virtually worthless since the 76ers would probably be in the playoffs by then.
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 17:13:22 GMT -5
The only thing that would make much sense to me now is a draft night (or shortly after) trade for Butler or something like that. I suspect if that happens the deal has been in place for a very long time but there have been no leaks on that.
It really has to happen too in order to attract major free agents. I'm not sure Hayward comes here without a major addition to this team.
It makes me think Ainge knows things we don't. Maybe he knows Hayward is coming here. Maybe he knows the Bulls will take Avery, Crowder, and some late firsts.
Because not much of this makes sense to me otherwise.
It seems very on the fly
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 17:13:55 GMT -5
Yup, no conditions. Unprotected, or it's a no go.
Let's see if Philly caves.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 17:17:09 GMT -5
The only thing that would make much sense to me now is a draft night (or shortly after) trade for Butler or something like that. I suspect if that happens the deal has been in place for a very long time but there have been no leaks on that. It really has to happen too in order to attract major free agents. I'm not sure Hayward comes here without a major addition to this team. It makes me think Ainge knows things we don't. Maybe he knows Hayward is coming here. Maybe he knows the Bulls will take Avery, Crowder, and some late firsts. Because not much of this makes sense to me otherwise. It seems very on the fly Yes to Hayward, not too fond of Butler. Are you thinking Butler at SG and Hayward at SF? |
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 17, 2017 17:20:24 GMT -5
I don't see the logic in getting both Butler and Hayward and drafting Jackson. I think it would be either Hayward or Butler and not both. Maybe Butler and then Griffin as a free agent. I am also not too fond of Butler. I didn't like the way he and Wade were taking their team gripes to the press. Just don't like his attitude.
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Post by jmost on Jun 17, 2017 17:26:35 GMT -5
Could be Danny is trying to get LA and Philly into a bidding war for the [HASH]1 overall pick. If they offer us the moon, great, and if not, we keep the pick - which, let's not forget is pretty damn good.
I don't think trading our pick for some distant future pick is remotely in consideration. Either we're all in for the next few years, adding to IT, Horford, Brown OR we're looking at peaking in 4-5 years when the Cavs and Warriors are getting old, in which case it's Brown, Fultz/Jackson, Zizic and next year's Net's pick all developing and coming of age together. It makes no sense to push the pick out several years.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 17:38:13 GMT -5
Could be Danny is trying to get LA and Philly into a bidding war for the [HASH]1 overall pick. If they offer us the moon, great, and if not, we keep the pick - which, let's not forget is pretty damn good. I don't think trading our pick for some distant future pick is remotely in consideration. Either we're all in for the next few years, adding to IT, Horford, Brown OR we're looking at peaking in 4-5 years when the Cavs and Warriors are getting old, in which case it's Brown, Fultz/Jackson, Zizic and next year's Net's pick all developing and coming of age together. It makes no sense to push the pick out several years. GM's think there's little gap between players 1-4, so if Ainge can get draft picks along with a top 4, that's getting value. |
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 17:48:42 GMT -5
The only thing that would make much sense to me now is a draft night (or shortly after) trade for Butler or something like that. I suspect if that happens the deal has been in place for a very long time but there have been no leaks on that. It really has to happen too in order to attract major free agents. I'm not sure Hayward comes here without a major addition to this team. It makes me think Ainge knows things we don't. Maybe he knows Hayward is coming here. Maybe he knows the Bulls will take Avery, Crowder, and some late firsts. Because not much of this makes sense to me otherwise. It seems very on the fly Yes to Hayward, not too fond of Butler. Are you thinking Butler at SG and Hayward at SF? Yeah, that's basically the thinking. Some people to seem to think so anyway |
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 17:53:46 GMT -5
I see one other possibility.....maybe it's a little like I said where Ainge is planning to trade down and then has a decent plan/agreement with someone like Sacramento to trade down again, and maybe even again. Get some decent picks and a decent player. Then pull the trigger on a trade. Then get Hayward.
Add
Hayward
Butler
J Isaac or Tatum or D Smith
Pick up....picks from someone(s)
Send out
Avery
Rozier
J Crowder
A couple picks
In this dream scenario maybe the Bulls settle for Rozier, Avery, Crowder and our own 2018 and one of the Clippers/Memphis picks we got coming and a couple 2nd rounders
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 17:56:21 GMT -5
So Zizic, Horford, Hayward, Butler, IT. Yeah, on paper that is a better squad than the one that won 53 games this season.
If Smart, Jaylen and Rozier can be solid off the bench, we'll have a nice rotation there (but need to beef up our frontcourt).
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 18:02:18 GMT -5
One thing is clear. The deal isn't done yet. The 76ers are looking at Fultz tonight and his medical records. I assume the Celtics want to meet with Jackson and his agent and see his medical stuff.
If we get through the weekend and the deal isn't essentially announced it could mean they are still in negotiations.
There maybe could be an agreement in place on value where Ainge knows what he'd get but now he wants to flip it and if he can't he won't do it.
One writer made a decent point that it doesn't really make much sense to trade for Jackson and picks if the real objective is getting Butler from the Bulls. In that case you could just trade Fultz for Butler and get a lot more too.
That makes me think the objective would be to get Jackson AND someone else.
I'm nervous Ainge is trying to get his cake and eat it too and might outsmart myself but I don't think he will exactly.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 17, 2017 18:02:26 GMT -5
I see one other possibility.....maybe it's a little like I said where Ainge is planning to trade down and then has a decent plan/agreement with someone like Sacramento to trade down again, and maybe even again. Get some decent picks and a decent player. Then pull the trigger on a trade. Then get Hayward. Add Hayward Butler J Isaac or Tatum or D Smith Pick up....picks from someone(s) Send out Avery Rozier J Crowder A couple picks In this dream scenario maybe the Bulls settle for Rozier, Avery, Crowder and our own 2018 and one of the Clippers/Memphis picks we got coming and a couple 2nd rounders That isn't out of the realm of possibility. Trade for Philly's 3 Trade 3 to SAC for 5 and 10 With 5 take Tatum, Isaac or Dennis Smith Jr Trade 10 for a player or future pick So we get 2-3 lottery picks from Philly Get lottery picks from Sacramento Not bad at all. |
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Post by eja117 on Jun 17, 2017 18:04:30 GMT -5
I definitely don't think Ainge is trying to get future assets just for the sake of future assets. I don't think he's trying to trade down just to do it. I would think he either has a solid plan in place or he really wants Jackson more and is trying to get gravy.
If that's the case I want to hear him really address that and take responsibility for it and say clearly "We felt this guy was the best player. That he will be the best player. We wanted him most. We think he's the best fit. We got extra to get exactly what we wanted. It was my decision."
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