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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 16, 2017 19:53:45 GMT -5
Boy, this is going to be a rough 6 days leading up to the draft. I'll be checking Celtics site every 5 minutes for updates. Are we stockpiling draft picks to trade them in for a big catch? And by big, I don't mean Jimmy Butler -- I mean Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis. Good call. You get the top pick next year. You trade two more likely top 10 picks. You pair him with J Jackson, G Hayward, IT, Smart, Horford, Jaylen....good luck beating that folks. Right? I mean, AD is a mismatch for the Warriors. Zaza and Draymond can't keep up with him. Durant? He'll get into foul trouble. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 16, 2017 19:55:06 GMT -5
How's this thought -- we get Philly's [HASH]3 plus other really good assets (like future draft picks), and we turn right around and trade the [HASH]3 to Sacramento for their [HASH]5 and [HASH]10 and whatever else they'll offer us. Sacramento really likes Fox, and it's being said that maybe Phoenix at 4 might take him. So if Sac wants Fox, they'll need to get up to 3. Love it. We would still get Tatum in that scenario. Then add in someone that falls to us like Markenen or Frank N or possibly even a faller like Monk or something. And we'll still get assets from both Philly and Sacramento in these trades, which gives us more ammo for a blockbuster trade. |
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 16, 2017 20:21:15 GMT -5
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 16, 2017 20:37:07 GMT -5
from Bulpett in the Herald
The above from Draft XPress could be why Danny may be looking elsewhere. Fultz is saying all the right things but some players just have that motor and drive and some don't. Maybe Danny sees that Fultz doesn't have the drive that he has looked for in players like Marcus, Jaylen and Rozier.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Jun 16, 2017 21:03:43 GMT -5
CelticsBlog has a good piece that may explain some of the reasons that Danny may be looking to pass on Fultz and trade the pick. Besides the ones I just posted from Draft XPress that he doesn't seem to have the drive and motor and seems to coast. I think back to players with the physical tools that never made it because of their lack of drive-
By moving down, they can keep the core players together and still have money to sign a max player. The draft is so iffy. You never know if a college star will translate to the NBA. So, whether they pick Fultz or Jackson or Fox or Tatum or any of the projected top picks, any one could end up a bust or a star. We have to have faith that Danny has done his due dilligence and will pick the best fit for the Celtics.
The team may see another prospect (Josh Jackson being the rumored candidate by Chad Ford in his latest mock draft) as being a match or not too big of a drop-off from Fultz.
if the Celts feel confident in whispers that they can absolutely acquire Gordon Hayward, Blake Griffin, or another marquee free agent they’re interested in, the cap implications of trading number-one makes even more sense.
The LeBron James report from Kevin O’Connor that the King may leave the Cavaliers for the Lakers or Clippers in 2018 is a big factor here. If the Clips have any chance at James, it’s worth letting Griffin go to buy into that chance. That leaves Griffin free to explore his options elsewhere, and Adrian Wojnarowski said on the Vertical Podcast that the Cs are players on Griffin.
The scenario that would most justify Boston passing up on the promise of Fultz is the possibility of getting a top free agent and swinging a deal for Jimmy Butler, who they have coveted for some time.
Those reasons can all help to explain why Danny would trade down and not take Fultz. But all that said, if they feel that Fultz is a step above everyone else and will be a superstar, they will take him regardless. Danny wouldn't want to give Philly a superstar that the Celtics could have had. Maybe it is the effort thing. Maybe because of that they see another player having a better chance of becoming a star. No matter how you look at it, it is a huge risk whichever way they go.
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 21:35:10 GMT -5
This whole casual motor stuff....suddenly the rumor that the Celtics called Fultz's high school guidance councilor makes sense. One assumes they also called Tatum's, Fox's, Ball's, and Jackson's.
One thing is for sure. The Celts know a lot that a lot of other people don't know. They have gone Bill Belichick/NSA/CIA/Men in Black on this draft. You better hire Nancy Reagan's psychic if you want any chance in heck of figuring this thing out
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 21:43:57 GMT -5
I'm not worried about the risk. Putting B Griffin with J Jackson, Zizic, Horford, IT, Jaylen, Smart, Avery, Jae, and Jimmy Butler doesn't worry me one bit.
If we get the haul I hope for....heck yes. It's like getting 4 or 5 high quality guys for Markelle. Hardly a gamble
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Post by mev17 on Jun 16, 2017 21:54:30 GMT -5
Possible master plan to conquer the world (caveat - I have not checked these proposed trades with a trade-checker):
Boston [HASH]1 to Phil for [HASH]3 and LA's 2018 1st round pick
We select Jackson
Leaves us with assets of Jackson, Brown, Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Net's [HASH]1, LA [HASH]1, Clipper [HASH]1, Memphis [HASH]1
Sign Hayward
Trade Bradley, Crowder, Nets [HASH]1 for Butler
Trade Jackson, Smart, LA [HASH]1 and Memphis [HASH]1 (maybe throw in Clipper [HASH]1) for George.
Gives us IT, Butler, Hayward, George, Horford, with Brown, Rozier, Zizic, Jabo off the bench
Only caveat is not sure after signing Hayward we can trade for both Butler's and George's salaries, but if we could, would be an intriguing "win now" lineup.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 16, 2017 21:57:05 GMT -5
I'm not worried about the risk. Putting B Griffin with J Jackson, Zizic, Horford, IT, Jaylen, Smart, Avery, Jae, and Jimmy Butler doesn't worry me one bit. If we get the haul I hope for....heck yes. It's like getting 4 or 5 high quality guys for Markelle. Hardly a gamble Except Griffin is a gamble I'd worry about. If he misses time, what good is it paying him all that money? Butler will cost us picks and players -- Hayward won't cost us a thing. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 16, 2017 22:00:25 GMT -5
Possible master plan to conquer the world (caveat - I have not checked these proposed trades with a trade-checker): Boston [HASH]1 to Phil for [HASH]3 and LA's 2018 1st round pick We select Jackson Leaves us with assets of Jackson, Brown, Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Net's [HASH]1, LA [HASH]1, Clipper [HASH]1, Memphis [HASH]1 Sign Hayward Trade Bradley, Crowder, Nets [HASH]1 for Butler Trade Jackson, Smart, LA [HASH]1 and Memphis [HASH]1 (maybe throw in Clipper [HASH]1) for George. Gives us IT, Butler, Hayward, George, Horford, with Brown, Rozier, Zizic, Jabo off the bench Only caveat is not sure after signing Hayward we can trade for both Butler's and George's salaries, but if we could, would be an intriguing "win now" lineup. Who plays PF? I know we don't necessarily use traditional positions anymore, but neither George, Hayward nor Butler have the size to muscle up on PF's, or be able to pound out rebounds. |
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 22:01:24 GMT -5
Personally I'd never pay him a max or I'd make it contingent on playing time. I think the thinking is that the Clippers are trying to clear out space of Bron and Paul George and just won't make Griffin an offer and that he'll want to come here. When that happens we could maybe get him for a lot less.
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 22:10:58 GMT -5
If I'm the Lakers at this point I might be like "Heck no I'm not letting the Celts get all that. We're taking Jackson!" Which is hilarious. Because they could use Ball way more. Could be a smoke screen to force Jackson to a team where he doesn't fit as well and the less good player (Ball) to a team where he doesn't want to be. Then they have to trade with each other.
We could still take Tatum. Maybe Ball's father told Ainge he'd love Ball to be there if they had an incredible shot at winning.
Personally I think LA is honing in on Ball and that's why he came back for a 2nd workout.
I think it's entirely possible Ainge isn't thinking that far ahead and is just thinking Jackson is ALMOOOOSSST as good as Fultz and that he can likely get him AND something pretty good for a player almost as good that fits better. Save money. Get a great free agent and future picks.
It would be pretty darn fun to add hypothetically Jackson and Hayward this year, and two top 5 picks next year and more stuff after that.
Or......Hayward, and Tatum at 5 and Markanen at 10 this year and two top 10 guys next year.
Send Jaylen to SG.
Trade Avery, late picks, our pick next year for disgruntled guy they'll lose anyway like Jimmy Butler.
Roll with
IT/Smart/Rozier
Jimmy/Jaylen
Gordan/ Tatum
Horford/Markanen/Yab
Zizic/MLE free agent/late draft pick
Beat that people. Beat that.
Oh yeah. Plus we get two top ten picks next year.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 16, 2017 22:12:35 GMT -5
Personally I'd never pay him a max or I'd make it contingent on playing time. I think the thinking is that the Clippers are trying to clear out space of Bron and Paul George and just won't make Griffin an offer and that he'll want to come here. When that happens we could maybe get him for a lot less. That'll be a best case scenario. Maybe he looks around the league, and sees we have a good chance to improve, plus we have an opening at PF, and we could add an All-Star in Hayward, and we already have Horford and IT who are stars, and he says, 'yup, I'm all in'. Or he could go back home and play for Oklahoma City. |
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 22:13:18 GMT -5
BTW
a starting lineup of
Smart
Jaylen
Tatum
Markanen
MLE free agent
is better than whatever the Lakers put out there next year as their starting lineup...barely
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Post by eja117 on Jun 16, 2017 22:17:07 GMT -5
When I hear Fultz might get traded for a "package" of "picks"....I'm hearing at least three picks. I'm hearing [HASH]3 and at least two more after that. That means the Lakers pick next year and at least one more.
So I hear [HASH]3 and various top picks.
That means to me maybe a trade down to 5 and 10 this year and other high picks either next year or next year AND the year after that.
Having two top ten picks for three years in a row (after picking 3rd last year and 6th the year before that) while also having added Horford last year and a top free agent this year, and having IT....yeah I'm fine with that.
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