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Post by FLCeltsFan on Oct 31, 2014 9:49:13 GMT -5
As I said, Doc is a great coach, but he needs veteran players. He's not a teacher. He's more of a facilitator. He never liked playing the young guys. If I had a veteran team like we did in 2008, I'd love Doc for a coach. But for a young team, not so much. Brad Stevens is perfect for this team. He's a teacher and he has a way of somehow getting young players to play hard and keep their attention.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 14:21:22 GMT -5
I Always thought doc was pretty well rounded. Just more geared towards vets. When he got here Pierce was still pretty young. He brought up perk and rondo and AL J and all those guys. I just think the Celtics wanted something else. He's doing it with Deandre Jordan too. Different style for sure. He also had a young team in Orlando he took to the playoffs. But yes he was extremely loyal to pierce and KG.
I think doc is a teacher just a different one than STevens. Doc is definitely more geared as a veteran coach but that is his experience. He did bring up AB as well though. I think Doc was strict with some rookie's and brought them up a different way in ways. He was careful with them.
Jim Obrien to me was not a teacher. Terrible with young players. Joe Johnson guys like that. The team was just a mess then with the fallout of pitino and all that. Not overly jim obriens fault but Pierce and Walker had a lot of bad habits that Doc Rivers fixed because of t hat.
I more believe in the process there. Just different time. Doc did a lot for this team getting us back on track. Stevens is a whole other level with these young guys. I think Stevens is more a true teacher of the game.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 14:32:32 GMT -5
If anything I think young players did ok under doc but they were only going to go so far. He could teach them certain things but other than that that wasn't his focus. That is Stevens focus is being a true teacher of the game. Rondo did really well under doc rivers but as far as taking his game to that extra level that's something Stevens is here for.
I think Stevens just overall is a better coach. Doc is a very good coach and loyal and all those things and I'll treat him with the same respect because I think Doc was very loyal to guys like KG and Pierce. Stevens to me is a great coach. I don't think its fair to say Doc was a b ad coach at all though. He wasn't greg popovich but i'd still put doc top 5-10 in the league as far as coaches go. I'd put him top 5 myself. STevens I'd put right at the top with Popovich.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 14:41:52 GMT -5
I also think DA kind of lied about Doc wanting to leave or quitting on us. I think DA just found a better coach and Doc was kind of moved out. DA just doing what is best for the c's. I think what happened with Doc was no different than what happened with KG and Pierce except people hate on doc for whatever reason.
Doc is a very good coach. Loyal too. Great person imo. I'd even say Doc is a great coach. Ubuntu and all that. AT that level not many people could do what he does. Stevens is someone who is going to really get underneath the hood with these guys and fix their strengths and weaknesses and really get this team playing to it's potential. I think both are no nonsense guys but Stevens even moreso. I think stevens logically is a master already but still learning and is going to just get the most out of these guys and the Celtics are going to do the right things regardless.
Some things are a little more complicated than sayng hey doc we found a coach who is better than you. That's kind of disrespectful imo regardless of whether it is true or not. It's really not true in a lot of ways. I'd more prefer to be correct on that one. They bring different things. Stevens probably is a better coach though. He is. Doc would probably be an assistant under Stevens which is weird.
I think that's somewhat of a shame too because Doc always talked about the Celtics mystique and how in Atlanta they had 2 or 3 guys. The Celtics had 5 of those guys. He could have been part of that here from a coaching perspective as an assistant going forward imo. But not as head coach with Stevens here.
Doc did win a championship here though as the head coach. I also think keeping doc here was pretty much pointless and him going to LA was best for both parties.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 15:23:09 GMT -5
Our coaching staff when we had Doc as head coach and Thibs as defensive coach was an amazingly great coaching staff. People always said doc was not an x and o guy either. But those teams as far as scheming were tops in the nba at that time especially on the defensive end of the floor. Thibs was theguru and guy but even still Doc was well rounded in a lot of facets and a great facilitator like that. Doc let people do their jobs. He was a manager that way. He was good with the media. But in order to do those things you have to be good in all facets yourself and I think doc was very good in all facets.
STevens to me is more the guy. STevens is all emcompassing genius, greg popovich, red auerbach stuff. Teacher, innovator all that. STevens is great in all facets . Doc is very good. Both are head coaches that way though. Not assistants.
Thibs was a defensive coach. That was his specialty. He was probably the best defensive coach int eh nba at that time. STill is probably as a head coach. That is his thing. He was cut out to be an assistant that way because he had a specialty. Of course he was going to be better than doc in that regard. Thibs is probably better than any defensive coach in the nba not named popovich. STevens is like that too where he is just great all around.
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Post by nateval on Oct 31, 2014 15:36:59 GMT -5
STevens to me is more the guy. STevens is all emcompassing genius, greg popovich, red auerbach stuff. Teacher, innovator all that. STevens is great in all facets . Doc is very good. Both are head coaches that way though. Not assistants. I like Stevens as a coach I think he is a really good fit for this team but come on. In the past two days you have anointed the Celtics championship contenders and now Stevens a genius NBA coach. Stevens has literally done nothing to earn it and the team though undefeated at 1-0 has done nothing to earn the label championship contender. Though I hate Doc and how he left he is still a great coach.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 15:39:55 GMT -5
Yes I have in ways but STevens is still learning. But I've had a year to watch stevens and logically doc was a great coach and the only thing logically why we hired stevens is because he is greg popovich. Ainge always talked with doc about possibly making him a popovich sort of guy longterm but it didn't happen. Why because doc was very good but he wasn't greg popovich. Ainge found Stevens. He was watching stevens at butler when doc was still here. He said that himself. Doc himself said he was disappointed in ainge with saying Doc was the one who wanted out and that both he and danny know the truth on that but other than he has no issues with danny. That is the truth.
STevens as far as a young coach who was willing to coach young players and teach the game. Ainge wanted that.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 15:43:40 GMT -5
Stevens isn't popovich yet but predicting and logically speaking that's very possible imo.
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 15:48:20 GMT -5
He's still a young coach. It's like a young player. They can bust b ut I think ainge hired stevens with that being the hope, and with that in mind, that we were moving in that direction and wanted a coach who could really teach these players and build a young dynasty that way.
Logically speaking injuries happen, great players are made and not born. A great player isn't going to bust if they are drafted and coached well and neither is a coach. Busts happen for a lot of reasons and it's not always simple.
If the Celtics are prepared which is what Stevens is here to do is get players prepared and for the Celtics to be prepared when failures happen we are going to be prepared which basically completely counteracts failure and breeds success.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 16:17:36 GMT -5
I think Stevens is going to succeed because this team is so prepared about everything. That's kind of the whole thing. We are going to outwork everyone and be prepared. Stevens is doing his homework. He has his players doing theirs.
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 16:57:30 GMT -5
Long term and Greg Popovich is something else. Stevens could end up being a go between himself. But as far as this group and getting our young players up to speed Stevens will be a success no doubt. He already is. I also believe he has more potential than that.
I'd rather focus on the positive there too. Some may spin that like he is a go between but I really believe the sky is the limit with him. He has that potential imo as it stands. That remains to be seen though.
At such a young age i've never seen someone do his homework like Brad Stevens does lol. That kid is going places.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 17:23:39 GMT -5
Ultimately it remains to be seen, but Doc Rivers was a success here. Brad STevens already is imo. This team can still go a lot of directions. Get our young talent in gear then trade them off for big stars and bring in a big name coach, but i'll believe that when I see it. Just more on the opposite side of that stuff is all.
I more believe the Celtics are building something here more long term that is going to last a while because they are. That is the intent with this group too. Ainge isn't scheming that way I don't think although he is going to do what is best for the Celtics regardless. There are going to be changes but we will see.
Brad Stevens already is a success, because he has just gotten these guys prepared this offseason and players are going to be better for it.
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Post by cfoo on Oct 31, 2014 17:34:49 GMT -5
Maybe someday we will hire Popovich away from san Antonio and trade for LeBron, Dwight howard, kobe Bryant and pair them with rondo but in the interm Stevens is that and so is everyone else.
That's it for me for the day but I think that pretty much covers how I see things.
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eja117
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Post by eja117 on Oct 31, 2014 20:49:22 GMT -5
I think any competent coach could have done what Doc did here. Or better.
Um....insert 5 pages of rambling here.
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Post by Celtic17 on Nov 1, 2014 6:54:03 GMT -5
Um....insert 5 pages of rambling here. Wonder where it will take us and back again.?.
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