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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 27, 2016 13:33:44 GMT -5
The phrase "the sum is greater than the parts" applied to the Detroit Pistons of a decade ago. They had many solid players, a hand full of All-Stars, but no elite superstar. They won, not because one individual player willed his team to victory, but by their starting 5 being better as a collective unit than their opponents' starting 5 (and what a cohesive unit that squad was). They played exceptional team ball, jelled exceedingly well together, and fit their talents perfectly and harmoniously.
Seeing how Ainge has not yet found a suitable trade partner to acquire an elite superstar, I keep going back to thinking the alternative is to be like the Pistons and win by having a well oiled starting 5 who outplays any other starting 5.
This means we can't have too many chinks in our armor, no glaring holes, no obvious weaknesses in our starting 5. This means there needs to be production at each position, and each player needs to win their fair share of the battle against their matchup.
This means on any given night, Amir has to outplay his counter part, Horford will have to be better than his man, Crowder will have to have won his matches against his defender, Bradley will have to have gained the upperhand over his man, and IT will have to have had a bigger game than his opponent.
Said in another way, when we need a key basket, rebound, etc, we need one of our guys to be able to step up and win the battle.
So now the question becomes -- can this starting 5 be that unit?
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Post by oldtimeball on Aug 28, 2016 12:01:26 GMT -5
They can.. But its the bench that has to improve in my opinion. Just cannot go deep or far without a exceptional bench.. There are nights the first five will do OK. Or lose those individual battles. But the bench will come in and dominate.. That's one of our glaring weakness's I thinl
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 28, 2016 14:37:47 GMT -5
Trouble is, we still have way less talent than those mid aught Pistons teams. I'd say our best player last year (IT4) would've been like the 5th best player on those Pistons teams. Getting Horford was a step in the right direction, but we still need to keep acquiring high end talent.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Aug 28, 2016 18:00:50 GMT -5
Personally, I think both units can play as team ball and outplay their counterparts on any given night. As oldtimeball said, many nights our second unit outplayed our first unit and the other team as well. The key is teamwork and as Darren said, if they continue to play as a unit and every player give it their all every night, especially with each player improving and with the added Jaylen Brown and Al Horford, I think they can be very, very good.
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Post by oldtimeball on Aug 28, 2016 22:26:05 GMT -5
If Amir is motivated and healthy we should be pretty good with the first five.. But we don't have any defensive bigs on the bench,for that second unit or if Al or amir get in foul trouble
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 29, 2016 1:39:26 GMT -5
Trouble is, we still have way less talent than those mid aught Pistons teams. I'd say our best player last year (IT4) would've been like the 5th best player on those Pistons teams. Getting Horford was a step in the right direction, but we still need to keep acquiring high end talent. Which is why we gotta hit it big with the drafts. Like, we need to see a bigger impact from Marcus Smart. We need to see Jaylen Brown doing big things next year (not this season, necessarily, since he's only a rookie). And then sign a big free agent next year. I'm thinking we need Jaylen to become better than Jae Crowder, at some point, for us to a better team. |
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 29, 2016 3:15:49 GMT -5
totally. i think jaylen may take a few years, but yeah, he definitely needs to become a bigger piece to the puzzle than Crowder. I love me some crowder, but he is a role player.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Aug 29, 2016 7:47:16 GMT -5
Jaylen has been hanging out and working out with Jimmy Butler. The Ringer had an interview with Butler and Bill Simmons asked Jimmy Butler what he thinks about Jaylen after playing him 1 on 1 and Jimmy says, "actually the NBA player he reminds me most of is me."
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Post by oldtimeball on Aug 29, 2016 15:45:50 GMT -5
totally. i think jaylen may take a few years, but yeah, he definitely needs to become a bigger piece to the puzzle than Crowder. I love me some crowder, but he is a role player. [b I think Crowder is much better than a role player.. Can he progress to all star status? I think he can.. The issue is everyone drools over scorers and highlight film stars.. Crowder is a very good player |
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Aug 29, 2016 16:22:41 GMT -5
[b I think Crowder is much better than a role player.. Can he progress to all star status? I think he can.. The issue is everyone drools over scorers and highlight film stars.. Crowder is a very good player I agree that Crowder is better than a role player. ESPN ranks him among the players who should and could make their first all star appearance this year. Crowder may never win the Scoring title, but he is an excellent two way player. TP for you! |
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 29, 2016 19:02:35 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if he made the all star team. I don't think he'll ever put up the scoring numbers to get in, and there's some strong competition at the SF spot in the east (Lebron, Carmelo, Paul George, etc). I think he'll end up having a career similar to Tayshaun Prince (which would be pretty darn awesome if so).
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Post by oldtimeball on Aug 29, 2016 20:20:43 GMT -5
Crowder scored 14.2 points 5.3 rebounds...Horford scored 15.2 points and 7.3 rebounds.. Crowder's went up. Horfords down.. I don't care if he makes a popularity contest. He's a very good player.. And makes approximately 25 % of what horford does. Jaylen brown would have to be a superstar to have him replace jae in the starting 5
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 30, 2016 0:30:57 GMT -5
How about we agree somewhere in between? Crowder may not make an all-star team, but he could very well be our team MVP (which in all likelyhood is more than a mere role player).
I'm a big Crowder fan, and as much as possible would like him to remain a Celtic. But talent wise, Jaylen has the higher ceiling, and to be the best, we need a roster filled with high quality talent. Again, not saying Crowder isn't talented; just saying Jaylen has a higher ceiling.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Aug 30, 2016 7:03:50 GMT -5
I'm a big Jae Crowder fan as well. He may not be a top scorer, but his defense and his energy sets him apart. I agree with Derren, he is the team's MVP and it makes me happy to think of Phil Jackson fuming as Jae shuts down his superstar as he thinks about passing up the chance to get him. I don't think his defense should be discounted when talking about how good he is.
And I also agree that Jaylen has the tools to be a star and the important part is that he has the drive to reach that level.
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Post by oldtimeball on Aug 30, 2016 10:16:06 GMT -5
I think that its a tough situation. Jaylen is going to need playing time. Can crowder slide over and play the 4 in small ball to accommodate that WHEN jaylen earns that time.. Its all great to say what jaylen can be but enjoy what Crowder is..
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