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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 19, 2005 1:46:42 GMT -5
Orien has terrific body control. Always dribbles upright and with his feet securely under him. He also is one of our better finishers around the rim with contact. I'd say Pierce, Tony Allen, and then Orien (in that order) are our best finishers around the basket after the contact.
Orien has displayed tremendous hangtime and upper body strength on a few occassions where he gets off the ground, waits for the contact, and then on his way down gets off a good shot attempt. He's a real good penetrator and he has mulitple ways of scoring in his arsenal once inside the paint.
One thing about Orien that Doc is not utilizing is his ability to roam with the ball and find players for high percentage shots. Doc puts him on the floor and hardly ever asks Orien to use his creating skills. Orien usually ends up just passing off the ball and becoming a bystander. In time, Doc needs to use Orien to set up players. Have the big men screen for Orien and simultaneously have the wings slash across the paint and under the basket for backdoor passes. And once Orien runs past the screen, the bigs need to flare out and look for the kickout jumper or cut to the basket and follow Orien into the lane to get a dump off pass.
We finally have a playmaker on the team and Doc fails to use him to create for others.
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Post by meltinjohn on Nov 19, 2005 2:39:14 GMT -5
He is a 53rd pick. I don't hold hopes for him to be anything more than just a big pg. He sounded great on paper but he doesn't seem so good in season now does he?
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Post by meltinjohn on Nov 19, 2005 2:39:38 GMT -5
When Banks returns, he has no place in the lineup. Mark those words.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 19, 2005 10:59:22 GMT -5
He is a 53rd pick. I don't hold hopes for him to be anything more than just a big pg. He sounded great on paper but he doesn't seem so good in season now does he?
And Marcus Banks was a 13th pick, but was already traded once and before he went down with his injury, he was fighting for the 3rd PG spot. What's your point? It doesn't matter where you were drafted--you need to stop looking at it from that angle because it is blinding you. I guess Gilbert Arenas didn't get the memo that being drafted low means that you aren't supposed to play well, huh Meltin?
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Post by eja117 on Nov 19, 2005 11:59:45 GMT -5
Derren Tracy McG and Jermaine didn't go to college and MeltinJohn made good points about KG who didn't go either. Also Magic came out as a young soph. I guess that's my point. If they aren't top 5 picks or future hall of famers then they probably can't lead us to a championship. I don't want to watch the Al Js of the world gettng dominated every night by future hall of famers and then hear "oh but he didn;t go to college" or "he wasn't a top 5 pick" A lot, if not most, of the future hall of famers in the leage right now didn;t go to college either.
I admit that the new way to try to win a championship is to try to have a deep and balanced team with good chemistry like the Pistons, but you can't win a championship by looking at your team and saying "well we got a bunch of Raefs and Blounts so lets go out and get a bunch of good backups in the lottery (in the case of Al J) who can't beat them out". At some point your young 1rst rounders (Al J, Perk, West, Banks, GG) have to beat out your starters, but in this case it isn't even clear they can beat out the 2nd rounders (OG, Ryan G, J Reed). I am seriously not entirely convincd that Al J would be a better future power forward than JReed. There I said it. Looking at their stats they are getting similar points, but Reed is a better defender and no wimp in the paint.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 19, 2005 20:55:02 GMT -5
If you remember, Ainge said that when he drafts he looks for players who could one day be top 5 picks. When Al came out of high school, he was projected to go higher than 15. Maybe if he went to college and stayed for 2 - 3 years, he may have developed his game and gone in the top 5. Who knows?
I am seriously not entirely convincd that Al J would be a better future power forward than JReed. There I said it. Looking at their stats they are getting similar points, but Reed is a better defender and no wimp in the paint.
You just gotta go by feel on this one, Eja. Numbers alone won't cut it. You can see by how they play that Jefferson has so much more abilities that just aren't harnessed yet. So much potential just waiting to be developed.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Nov 19, 2005 20:58:51 GMT -5
Jefferson has shots that just cant be stopped once he gets a feel around the rim. Justin Reed is more an overachiever that relies on his tenacity. There really is a huge difference between the two. Once Al gets his thing going he will be one of the best pf's in the league.
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Post by Celtic17 on Nov 19, 2005 21:34:10 GMT -5
Jefferson has shots that just cant be stopped once he gets a feel around the rim. Justin Reed is more an overachiever that relies on his tenacity. There really is a huge difference between the two. Once Al gets his thing going he will be one of the best pf's in the league. I like this post and player tenacity... Thanks CF.  |
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Post by meltinjohn on Nov 20, 2005 9:58:42 GMT -5
Al is capable of those stats only IF he manages his fouls and trys to dunk it more often and be agressive with his power moves. Keon Clark even seemed more explosive in that area.
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Post by eja117 on Nov 20, 2005 10:08:34 GMT -5
Give me a tenacious overachiever over a lazy and timid underachiever any day. I am really close to calling Al J the pillsbury doughboy.
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Post by meltinjohn on Nov 20, 2005 10:14:44 GMT -5
I see you're calling him quite soft.
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Post by eja117 on Nov 20, 2005 11:10:53 GMT -5
The difference between him and Rodman or Malone is the difference between a wolf and a polite young man. Give me the wolf. Al J doesn't even begin to dominate the post. Of course it's hard to get domination in 17 mpg
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 20, 2005 19:43:56 GMT -5
Give me a tenacious overachiever over a lazy and timid underachiever any day. I am really close to calling Al J the pillsbury doughboy. You are mistaken sir. Jefferson does not play lazy by any stretch. He's out there hustling, he's out there crashing the boards, he's out there covering his assignments, etc. Watch how quickly Jefferson gets down the court on fastbreaks and tell me that he's lazy. And all those cheap fouls that he gets called for, that comes from overachieving. He doesn't play as ruggedly as he should, or how we'd like him to, but you can't mistake that with laziness. He's always giving full effort on the court. |
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Post by meltinjohn on Nov 20, 2005 23:12:10 GMT -5
I can see where eja is coming from. Jefferson is really decent in the post like Malone and not quite the rebounder Rodman was but he just doesn't have killer instinct. If he had it, then I could see a 20 and 10 season. NO guy averaging 20 and 10 is as soft as a grape.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Nov 21, 2005 1:58:51 GMT -5
Derren this is why I doubt a lot of the guys on the Celts. Cause guys like MJ, Lebron, Bird, and Magic didn't have sophmore slumps. They didn't get 6ppg their rookie years. They didn't ever get dominated. The only reason we even give these guys a shot is cause Jermaine O Neal and Tracy McGrady took 4 years to develop, but they weren't behind guys like Blonut and Justin Reed. They were behind guys like Vince Carter and Arvydas and Rasheed. I see them develop but I'm not sure I even see all star type stuff out f them. I mean the team is struggling and they aren't even dressing Gerald Green. If his rrokie year isn't even as good as say JR Smith's last year, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to stay excited about him. If you can't stay healthy and beat out Dan Dickau then how good can you be? You can't beat out Blount or a one kneed Raef? Well, Micheal Jordan missed almost all of his sophmore year. ASnd with your hatred for players that get injured, wouldn't you consider that a sophmore slump? |
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