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Post by ferbo on Jul 16, 2005 11:20:33 GMT -5
Worth remembering that DA played with DJ in the backcourt. Neither of them was a "classic" PG. DJ could not penetrate like many PGs. What he was good at was setting up the big guys in the half-court.
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Post by goceltics34 on Jul 16, 2005 13:47:01 GMT -5
The key to next season IMO will be perkins. We know he can rebound and block shots, but i want to see what kind of an offensive game he has. I couldnt imagine if perk was to average around 10 a game what our team would look like. Also im curious to see how the PG situation plays out. Delonte seems to have the upper hand. I'm very excited about out team, hopefully a team that will have the "the truth" in a celtics uniform.
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Post by Ossric on Jul 16, 2005 14:24:35 GMT -5
Worth remembering that DA played with DJ in the backcourt. Neither of them was a "classic" PG. DJ could not penetrate like many PGs. What he was good at was setting up the big guys in the half-court. DJ was a former finals MVP with Seattle, comparing West with DJ is a bit to much. from NBA.com: During his 13-year playing career with the Seattle SuperSonics, the Phoenix Suns, and the Boston Celtics, Johnson established himself as one of the best defensive guards in the league. "D.J." combined his bulk with rocket-launcher legs to frequently win battles against players nearly a foot taller.
His quick hands and feet made him a constant threat to strip the ball from opponents. He always seemed to be in the middle of the action. He could post up, crash the boards for rebounds and tip-ins, hit from the outside and lead the fast break. And he could pass with the best of the league's playmakers.
Somehow, i don't think we're going to write this about West in a couple of years. I know you just used DJ as an example of a non-classic PG, but unlike West, DJ had other qualities that more than made up for this "shortcoming". |
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Post by ferbo on Jul 16, 2005 14:28:15 GMT -5
Not saying that. But I think there would be similarities in how they play the 1. Neither was/is a strong penetrator. Neither is a lighting bolt on defense, but both were/are solid. Both were/are pretty good passes, generally take care of the ball.1 Neither was/is Nash, etc.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 16, 2005 17:39:42 GMT -5
GoCeltics34, I was just thinking roughly along the same lines as I was thinking about the future of our team.
I'm confident that our future big three will be Jefferson (PF), Green (SF), and Allen (SG). These three are versatile scorers and very athletic players who play hard. They are capable of putting up big numbers on any night (Green has yet to step foot on an NBA court, but I have no doubt that he's an up and coming offensive star). I've been questioning Perkins' role as a possible starting C for us because his overall game is limited because of his lack of foot speed and mobility. But if he can produce 10 rpg, 2 bpg, and 2 spg, that may be all we need him to do. I was hoping for a player like Bogut, who can score, rebound, block shots, cook, clean, take out the trash, and all that junk. But maybe we really don't need all that with Jefferson, Green, and Allen being our big three.
Same for the PG position. I really like Delone as a player. He's one of my favorite players on the team because he plays the game the right way. But I'm contemplating whether or not I view him as a starting PG. He's steady and all, but he doesn't create a lot of scoring opportunities for his teammates. But when I think of Jefferson, Green, and Allen, they don't need a PG setting up scoring opportunities for them too often because they are versatile scorers who can create shots for themselves. Not only by isolations, but because they move around so much and slash to the basket, Green and Allen will get open looks from the perimeter and open driving lanes--as long as the ball is moving around the court.
As long as Delonte can pass the ball into the post, Jefferson will be fine. Green and Allen can penetrate into the lane, and so he'll be getting quick dump offs for easy scores quite often. If he and Delonte can find a good ryhthm with the pick and roll (ala Stockton and Malone), we won't need Delonte to be a great playmaker.
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 16, 2005 20:49:36 GMT -5
As long as Delonte can pass the ball into the post, Jefferson will be fine. I believe West will be fine at this. Will the bigs move the ball after he gets it to them? That's my question. Al looked good at times, kicking the ball back out, last year. When I saw him... |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 16, 2005 20:57:37 GMT -5
I think Jefferson can be. When he gets the ball in the post, he's looking up to see his cutters and the immediate kick out guy. I've seen him make nice shovel passes off to the cutting player who's attacking the basket just as Jefferson is making his move in the post. I also like it when Jefferson is holding the ball high above his head as the guy who just fed him the ball makes a cut past him, using Jefferson as a screen. I think Jefferson can get a good amount of assists on the hand off, much like how Vlade and Webber got Bibby a lot of scoring opportunities using this same technique.
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 16, 2005 22:25:21 GMT -5
I think so too DM...
This might help any PG. A plus is we have West, he can shoot too.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 16, 2005 23:20:20 GMT -5
I think so too DM... A plus is we have West, he can shoot too. That, and the fact that he is a smart basketball player, keeps him in the running for the future PG spot--even though he's not an awesome playmaker. I mentioned earlier that if Rivers wants us to have a starting lineup of 5 players who can all score and make smart passes, then Delonte is the choice PG, especially because of his shooting ability. But if Rivers likes the way a playmaking PG can create scoring opportunities for his players, like Nash and Kidd (and to some extent Parker, Iverson, and Billups), then Delonte doesn't quite fit the mold. |
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 16, 2005 23:31:21 GMT -5
Yea I don't know where this crap is coming from about him being picked first meaning he could be the first to go. I think BC could be all wrong with where he was going with that like he admitted. With time C17, yes Delonte can develop passing. 2 years is even too soon to give up on him. I mean our record with him starting was 8-1 right? When Walker returned, he had a great game. I see shades of a good pg and I see some shades of another Jiri but I see quite more good in him than I do Jiri.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 16, 2005 23:49:02 GMT -5
It seems that the offense flows better with Delonte on the court. He's not the type to hold onto the ball unnecessarily. If there's nothing for him to do, he'll pass it off to the closest open person. If he's driving and his lane closes up, he'll stop his penetration and pass it off to the next closest person. Some guys will dribble and dribble, and after awhile, his teammates don't know what else to do but stand around and wait for him to do something (which is what happens with Pierce quite often). At this point, the guy will most likely revert to one on one basketball because by this time, the shot clock is winding down.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 17, 2005 0:07:59 GMT -5
One thing I like about Delonte is those things. hes very unselfish. He could even learn to become a total pass first pg. I see that easily once he has more training. I see possible future numbers for him being 12.4ppg and 6-7apg along with 1.6 spg or 2.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 17, 2005 0:26:39 GMT -5
Well, its not a problem for him to become a pass first PG. He's sort of one already. What he could learn to do is become a playmaking PG, as in driving and penetrating into the paint to get our bigs some open looks at the bucket, using pick and rolls to set up players for jumpers or lay ups, and pump fakes to free up a kick out for a three pointer. Not many people give him credit, but Jamaal Tinsely is an underrated playmaker. He's such a craft guy that whoever guards him usually finds himself guessing what Tinsley is going to do.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 17, 2005 0:30:00 GMT -5
Yea, if West becomes a playmaker, he can be as good as Tinsley anyways. Hopefully better but thats getting ahead of things.
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