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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 25, 2005 3:52:10 GMT -5
The dry humor if that's what it was...? " Yea its just you. " Read what Derren posted before you.  Now I sorta see the humor in it now that I read it pretending I was another reader ;D. Not sure who you consider "white", but if you consider Europeans "white", then Dirk Nowitzki should be a great white hope. Or how about Steve Nash? Peja Stojakovic? I'm european and have dark italians in my family and I also could look serbian and been told I looked like Divac when I had a dark beard and I still consider myself white nonetheless. On job applications, they don't put european on it like they do asian. In this day in age, it can all be white where as years back, it wasn't considered so. The Irish weren't even considered white in the old old days. Peja may not be white by many but I view him as white. Anything is white that isn't brown and has a lighter skin besides Yao of course. Bogut may be aussie and I heard he was croatian but when I look at Toni Kukoc, I viewed him as white. Not white american looking by any means but just euro white. Nash is a cannuck. Hes totally white. It says his birthplace is South Africa even if he is a cannuck. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 25, 2005 3:58:07 GMT -5
So you do you think Nowitzki can be considered a great white hope then? I mean, this guy is one of the best players in the league.
Nash is the best PG in the league and is being considered for the MVP race.
Bogut has a chance to go further than Chris Mihm, Chris Kaman, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Shawn Bradley have.
If Chris Mihm had Bogut's toughness, he would be one of the better Centers in the league.
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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 25, 2005 21:36:52 GMT -5
Dirk is a great white european hope. The term "great white hope" I associate with americans though.
Z has done a lot for a center in todays day in age. Bogut will live up to that but I don't see him being any better overall. Word has it that Kaman might go to Philadelphia in the future BTW. I heard it was because hes friends with Webber.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 25, 2005 22:24:28 GMT -5
Dirk is a great white european hope. The term "great white hope" I associate with americans though. Well, then why did you say that you don't think Bogut will be the next great white hope? He too is a European, by way of Australia (born Croatian). Bogut is playing on CBS right now, if anyone is interested. Watch him run down the floor and you'll see how quick he is for a 7 footer. Not even Mihm, whom I consider one of the more mobile 7 footers in the NBA, can run like him. Kaman is more of an offensive player than Mihm is, but Bogut has more versatility near the basket. and he's got the best set of hands by far. Really good game to catch. Rajon Rondo (Kentucky's PG) is one of the more exciting PG's in college, though he is a bit too carefree. His personality reminds me of Alfonso Soriano of the Texas Rangers (formerly the second basemen for the Yankees). Mark Jackson (Utah's PG) is also a steady producer. |
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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 26, 2005 0:26:13 GMT -5
Sounds like a Z or Divac to me. Divac was quite good too. Why did I refer to Bogut as a great white hope when I refer to most americans like that? At first, I thought Bogut was white american before I found out a tad more about him and found he was croatian descent from down under.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 26, 2005 0:49:32 GMT -5
Z and Divac are too slow. Bogut wil easilybe one of the quickest and fleet footed Centers in the NBA. Neither Z or Divac can move like Bogut. Neither can attack facing the basket like Bogut can.
He's also stronger than Mihm and more coordinated than Kaman.
I don't think Bogut will be the next great Center in the NBA. But I do think he can rival Yao Ming for years to come.
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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 26, 2005 2:10:10 GMT -5
Thats kinda pushing it. Yaos only setback is that hes not that strong and isn't a dominator. He won't even be as good as Yao I don't think regardless of the speed he has. Chris Anderson is quick for a tall white guy too but is he as good as Yao? Hes on the bench on a losing team despite his talents. I say Bogut will be just as quick and athletic as Chris Anderson but have a Z like game to him.
People just assume because a player has more speed than another player that they can be better. Z may be slow and Bogut may be quick but Z will be the better player if Bogut cannot get 18 and 9-10 like Z can when healthy. Just wait and see. Thats all I say. People complimented Robert Swift too but I think hes downright horrible.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 26, 2005 15:04:29 GMT -5
Speed is one of the critical factors in determining if a player can perform against NBA talent. Without speed, a player is hindered. Speed isn't the only factor (such as in Larry Bird's case), but it greatly helps.
Now, add speed with skills, and the chances of this player succeeding is even better. Add in aggressiveness with speed and skills, and you have a very good prospect on your hands. Add in height, and instincts, and you can see why I feel good about Bogut's chances.
I'm not high on Yao Ming. He doesn't have many post moves that take him to the basket strong. Most of his shots are going away from the basket. Now, as a 7'6" guy, he has the luxury of getting away with this because he has an incredibly soft touch. But he's also on the slow side and doesn't gain separation on his drop steps. He gets by with his height and touch. That's why Yao isn't dominant. He's not even that good of a shot blocker or rebounder.
Bogut is tougher and more aggressive than Yao. He's quicker and more agile. He's got a quicker first step and can gain separation from his man either facing the basket or using a drop step. He's also more coordinated.
But, as I'm saying all these good things about him, keep in mind that I don't think Bogut will be a dominant force in the NBA. I think he'll be better than Yao.
He's not going to be a force like Amare Stoudemire, simply because he doesn't have the "It" factor--that oomph to his game.
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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 28, 2005 0:16:28 GMT -5
As far as Amare goes, I don't like him. He can dunk and all but how impressive is that? Not too. Hes not a good decision maker.
Now Yao is not dominant but he is still above all the centers in the league besides Shaq. Bogut may not get any better than Yao but if he has quickness and skills both, it can only help not hurt. A Z with speed and a little more toughness would do better than Yao. Yao is 7'6 but there is no doubt for a 7'6 man, hes the best center ever. Not many 7'6 guys have made it as big.
As good as Smits was, he was slow and didnt average more than 8 or 8.5rpg. But this still does not mean Bogut will be better but his quickness and toughness can't hurt. Hed be on the equal level of Okafor for skill anyways. I say a tougher and somewhat better player than Yao or = to Okafor for toughness is the highest he can go and the lowest he can go will be a Kaman and middle of the line nearest to the best comparison I just gave would be Z.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Mar 28, 2005 12:45:59 GMT -5
i don't like amare either. seems to be a randolph-like potential punk
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 28, 2005 16:59:28 GMT -5
Bogut will be a player. I dont think he'll be a superstar. He reminds me of Seikely for some reason. He also reminds me of Sabonis although not as good. He'll probably end up being a 15 and 10 guy that can pass the ball well and block some shots. Look at Seikely's numbers and that is probably what you will get.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 28, 2005 17:34:36 GMT -5
Now there's someone who I didn't compare him to. Good one, CF. Ronnie Seikaly, when he was healthy, was a pretty solid Center. Think of him with more speed and better mobility and you'll get an idea of Bogut.
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Post by meltinjohn on Mar 29, 2005 17:00:41 GMT -5
i don't like amare either. seems to be a randolph-like potential punk I'm glad someone else also sees Amare that way. Josh Smith also could be a punk. These guys could not make the grades so they go to the nba. Dwight however, I think made the grades to go to college but just didn't. But this will all change once the age limit goes into effect. Guys like Dwight who can clearly make the grades will go to college and play and the HS'ers who are dumb academically and unqualified for college will go to the NBDL. Now there's someone who I didn't compare him to. Good one, CF. Ronnie Seikaly, when he was healthy, was a pretty solid Center. Think of him with more speed and better mobility and you'll get an idea of Bogut. Dude, I sorta thought of that comparison yesterday. Seikaly also went to 4 years of college like Bogut did and is a lebanesian as to Bogut being a croatian. Hes like the perfect guy to compare Bogut to. |
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