Legend or the Truth

[cfoo]

Ok since I started this I might as well ask it. This one is obviously more obvious for a lot of people, but I do think people do underrate Pierce. Bird obviously as a shooter and for his basketball IQ, leadership and just tenacity needs to be taken here by me, but Pierce as a pure scorer, his physical play and toughness(both are physical players, Bird just didn't have the body for it and it eventually killed his career) and all around game make it a closer match then people might like to think. Pierce may never have the fg% that bird did because of the teams he played on, and his role on those teams but he may be the C's alltime leading scorer when done. Pierce never had Mchale and Parish either. The main reason I take Bird is because of his basketball IQ and drive although Pierce has a similar drive but in a different manner. Pierce is one of the best midrange shooters in the game today. Bird is probably the greatest shooter ever period. Pierce may actually be a better scorer though.

[freshnthehouse]

Bird. Not even close. Larry is a top 5 NBA player. Pierce, if he's lucky, might break the celtic's top 5. Bird either beats or virtually ties Pierce in every statistic.

And I never understood the argument that Pierce is a better scorer than Bird. Bird's career average is higher than Pierce's, and Pierce has never come close to matching Bird's highest average for a season (29.9ppg in 87-88).

[cfoo]

I agree with you but I had to ask. The reason I think people say Pierce is a better scorer sometimes is because he is more of a slasher then bird ever was and has more ability in that area. This goes back to the argument that game is a lot different now and individualized though as well. The game was played at a much higher level imo in 80's. Pierce also if he stays healthy should break the celtics scoring record. I think if you are looking at it from a pure scorer standpoint Pierce is very good. Is he Larry Bird good? no, but if he owns the celtics scoring record that is no small feet. Bird is a legend and rightfully so and is a top 5 player all time in more ways then just numbers. obviously you take him. But Pierce in his own right his numbers will speak for themselves. I think people overlook Pierce in that regard. I think when people look back at Pierce's career he was great in own right. Not Larry Bird great, but still great. If you are talking top 50 players of all time. Where Garnett rates higher than Mchale. I think Bird is obviously top 5 and Pierce rates lower than Garnett but higher then the Scottie Pippens of the world.

[freshnthehouse]

I know this is O.T., but the placement of Pippen in any all-time list is always interesting to me. Here was a guy that was never going to lead a team very far by himself, but you put him with MJ and good gravy could that guy play. He was one of the best man-to-man defenders I've ever seen. I dont remember wheich finals it was, but I remember a game against the Jazz in which he basically didnt let Stockton do a thing. It took Stock about ten seconds just to throw an entry pass to Malone thanks to the pressure Pip was putting on him. But if he wouldve landed on almost any other team, he would gave been. at most, a player that occasionally reached all-star status.

He's an interesting case, that Scottie Pippen.

[eja117]

Scottie is maybe the single weirdest case in the history of the game. Simultaneously one of the greatest players ever and one of the most underrated and one of the most overrated. I don't know how that's possible but it's true.

I don't see how we compare a guy who won 3 MVPs to a guy who never did better than 3rd team all-NBA and that was only once. Plus Bird has championships.

[birdie]

Bird with no hesitation, how can you compare someone with Bird, Larry Bird is the best
player in NBA history after Michael Jordan. Only MJ is better than him

[cfoo]

I hear you. This leads to the question though if this team does well who will take MVP Pierce or Garnett? I would tend to think it would be Garnett. The thing is both players have seen limited success on their own winning wise but imo they really need each other to take it over the top. Garnett put together some mvp type seasons earlier in his career statistically, Pierce has yet to do that.

Has Garnett ever won MVP? I'm asking because I dont know. he probably should have with some of his numbers early on, but was he overlooked because of his team? Garnett is an MVP caliber player reason why i say this. Pierce has yet to put togehter a season like that. If Garnett were on good teams he probably would have won 2 or 3 mvps by now and be regarded in a much greater way then he is. Say this team were together from early in their careers. I would bet this team would have several championships and Garnett would probably have 3 mvps and Pierce might have 1.

My only point is I do think GArnett and Pierce are that good. They just never had each other. Plus throw Ray Allen in the mix and we have a good team. It's too bad it took these guys until their 30's to find each other. The thing is the NBA is very different these days. These 3 guys are also surrounded by 2 very young although talented players even this late in their career in Perk and Rondo. Bird never had to deal with that. When bird had to deal with Dee Brown that is when the wheels started coming off. I'm not saying Pierce is on Bird's level or even close but I do think we underrate these guys just because of the state of the NBA.

[cfoo]

I also understand Pierce's frustration level at times with this team throughout his career. When he had any semblance of a team aroudn him, which wasn't much, he took this team to the eastern conference finals where they just fell short. He basically had to single handedly mount that 4th quarter comeback which drained him in that series imo. Garnett has experienced the same kind of frustration.

When watching the press conference when all these guys were together i got the sense it was like each player found jesus or something. Because it's almost like this relief to them that they finally found each other. But I also think they are going to work their !!!GREENIAC!!! off because time is so short. It's just a shame this didn't happen sooner.

[FLCeltsFan]

No contest.... Larry Joe Bird was one of the greatest ever. Pierce doesn't come close.