Ponder this

[DERRENMATTS]

Right now, most Celtics fans are on Cloud 9, day dreaming how much fun its going to be to watch Garnett, Pierce, and RAllen bring glory back to Boston. What a difference a couple of months makes. Think back to the lottery selection night in May, when most fans thought we'd get a top 3 pick, but were desperately praying for the top pick, and the rights to Greg Oden. The bomb was dropped that night as the absolute worst case scenario happened and we ended up with the 5th pick. The aftershock left us wondering what would become of our team. We traded for Ray Allen on draft night, instead of keeping the 5th pick, but no one seriously thought this move was going to make us contenders. But now we see how that move led us to bait KG here, and now we are wondering how lucky we are to have one of the NBA's greatest players playing on our team.

BUT, what if we DID land the top pick. What if on on the lottery selection night, we nabbed the 1st pick. Imagine if Greg Oden, a future star Center in the NBA, a rare big man talent who comes along once a generation, was a Celtic. No trade for Ray Allen, no trade for Kevin Garnett. But we still have Jefferson, Gomes, Delonte, Green, and Telfair--and now throw Greg Oden into the mix. On paper, that seems like a contending team when the players are developed.

If Oden fills into his vast billing, and Jefferson emerges as a star PF (which I know he will do), with Pierce still playing at a high level, and Rajon playing like a top 10 PG, that would be a formidable team to compete against (with, or without Gerald Green reaching his ceiling). Off the bench, you'd have Perk, Gomes, Delonte, and Telfair, with either Gerald or Tony Allen coming in to replace Pierce. This young team will be able to compete against any up and coming team who will be the new powerhouses in the NBA (Chicago Bulls, Portland TrailBlazers, etc.)

We got really lucky when Kevin Garnett decided to leave his loyal following in Minnesota, to come to Beantown. But we may have been lucky as well if we landed Greg Oden on draft night too. Either way, our fortunes have really turned the corner and its going to be fun to shout in public that we are Celtics fans, without getting laughed at.

[cfoo]

We will just be called bandwagoners now. I remember being a cowboy fan when they were 1-15 and everyone knew i was a real fan, and when they started winning championships people thought i was a bandwagon jumper. I agree it would have been nice but it's the same thing had we landed Tim Duncan. Once we didn't land Oden I think this teams management decided to make a move for the hear and now. That was pretty much it. They pretty said we are going to win regardless and they took the best measures to do that now.

[freshnthehouse]

If given the choice, I'm pretty sure that hitting the lottery would have been a better situation for this team. I think that Oden is going to be an unreal player, and I love the idea of an Al/Oden combo for the next 15 years. But I cant complain about the spot we're in now.

[DERRENMATTS]

freshnthehouse said:

If given the choice, I'm pretty that hitting the lottery would have been a better situation for this team. I think that Oden is going to be an unreal player, and I love the idea of an Al/Oden combo for the next 15 years. But I cant complain about the spot we're in now.

Right, I just sigh when I think of what could have been if we had the 1st overall pick. Oden and Jefferson in the frontcourt, Pierce and Rajon in the backcourt, and a whole lot of solid role players filling out the roster. Man, that could have been special for many many years.

Oh well, we'll see what fortunes lie ahead with this amazing team we have now.

[cfoo]

You are right Derren. I think everyone was hoping for Oden and I think that was plan A.

[eja117]

I think this might be better than if we had gotten Durant.

[rockinrondo]

If given the choice, I'm pretty that hitting the lottery would have been a better situation for this team. I think that Oden is going to be an unreal player, and I love the idea of an Al/Oden combo for the next 15 years. But I cant complain about the spot we're in now. I'm not so sure about that, Oden could turn out to be only a solid center, don't forget, other than the point, the center position is the hardest to dominate. Think about it, you can count the great centers on one hand, you know the ones that can totally control the paint, that takes more than just talent, I have not seen the BB IQ yet, and I watched him play alot in college and have saw many highlight's of him in HS, AND HAVE NOTICED ONE BIG WEAKNESS IN THAT HE HAS TROUBLE PASSING OUT OF THE DOUBLE TEAMS, that he is sure to face big time in the NBA. I also think he has alot of work to do on his 8-10 foot jumper, and of cource he will be playing against guys just as big , strong, and quick as him in the NBA. I mean don't get me wrong, I think he will someday he will be a solid center someday, but SUPER STAR? I think only time will tell and that time will be a few years from now. I think if the Celtic's had gotten the first or second pick they should have picked Durant, a front line of Perk, Big Al and Durant along with Pierce and Rondo would have (in 2-3 years) been a very strong five, with T. Allen, West, Green, scal's and Powe off the bench would'nt have been that bad, but it would have been several years before they reached their potintal, and Pierce just could'nt wait that long. I also believe that only Al would have been a sure fire all-star, the rest may only end upbeing role players. So with that said, Who in their right mind would'nt trade Al, and a bunch of unproven players, (who may never be anymore than that), for R. Allen and KG, two proven all stars, to add to their own all star. I would rather have a 3-5 window to compete for the title everyone of those years, instead of 3-5 years hopeing that the young players we had would reach their potential and possible compete for the playoffs. I for one am sick of waiting for all the young ones to mature, year after year. We will be a top 5 team in the league for the next 5 years, can anyone say for sure that we every would have been a top 5 ever without this trade? The Celtic's got the best of both trades hands down, and with the big three, we will have no problem getting good players that want to play for the C's, plus we already have a solid core of young players (Perk, Rondo, T.Allen, G. Davis, Wallace and Pruitt) who will get better quicker playing with the big three and the other vets like Pollard, Scal, House and hopefully "Miller Time", so I dont think we will have a huge drop off when the big three aregone + we will have all that extra $ from their expiring contracts. So with out a doubt the Celtic's are in better shape for the next five years than if they had not made the trades. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CELTIC'S

[cfoo]

eja117 said:

I think this might be better than if we had gotten Durant.

Durant probably would have meant trade Pierce and build around Durant and Jefferson. Although Pierce, Durant, Jefferson at the 2, 3, and 4 could have been pretty good. Oden would have meant build around JEfferson, Oden and Pierce. Allen, GArnett and Pierce was probably plan C.

[Roadrunner]

Well, I live in the present and the team assembled will bring championship #17 (perhaps #18 as well) to the Boston faithful.

[DERRENMATTS]

Thanks for chiming in your thoughts, RockinRondo. Lofty expectations have been placed on Oden--we'll have to see if he can live up to them. Learning to pass out of double teams will be a hands on training, but with the right mentoring from the coaching staff, he should overcome this.

If we had gotten Oden, we would have had a powerful team for the next decade, and then some. With the trades we've made, we should have a powerful team for the next 5 years.

[rockinrondo]

DERRENMATTS, your welcome, I love to ring my bell about my Celtic's. That's why I am so glad I found this board. The best, not only the C's best sports board I have found, but the best in all sports on the net, I love it!!!Back to the topic, Derrenmatts I agree that good coaching and smart teammates, spotting up for jumpers and cutting to the rim, will help him avoid turnovers from being trapped down low. But that is if he has the Basketball IQ, you cant get by with athletic abilty and or talent alone. IMO, over all Basketball IQ is very under rated, that is why you see so many college kids who have unbelieveable careers, don't even get drafted, they just cant grasp the game from a mental stand point. I am not so sure, with out the trades we would have ever been a power house, least not for 3-5 years or more, by then their only superstar (Pierce) may start slowing down, and while I see Al as being a very solid player, if not a great one, if he improves his D and BB. IQ. But, I do not see that in any one else that we traded away. That also includes Green, who is a classic example of a player who is as athleticly gifted as anyone we've seen since, "GULP," maybe MJ, but the kid has the BB. IQ of a 5th grader. I just don't think he will ever get it, I hope I'm wrong because I like the kid. IMO we traded AL, and a bunch of role players, for the second best PF in the nba (Duncan is best), and IMO top 3 in the league and top 5- 8 all time, and without a doubt we got the best shooter in the NBA, from 3pt. "397%" range and top 5 in FT. "888%". There are some who say the big three are selfish, I guess they never bothered to check the stats: Pierce for his career averages 3.9, but has averaged at least 4.1 since 02-03, with a high of 5.1 in 80ga. in 03-04. Allen: 3.93 career, at least 3.56 for the last 10 years, with a season high of 4.79 in 2003. KG: 4.5 car. least 4.1 10 st. yr., high of 6.0 in 02-03, and had at least 5.0 from 99-00 to 04-05. Now that is impressive. I will take a chance to win a title or 3 in the next 4-5 years over maybe making the playoffs in 3-4 years, anyday. Danny would have been a fool, and should have been banned from ever working in the NBA forever, if he had not pulled the trigger on this trade. People need to stop living in the past, and wondering what might have been, and enjoy what we have now, which is a contender FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP for years. When was the last time we Celtics could say that. ENJOY, PLEASE. GOOOOOOOOO CELTIC'S

[FLCeltsFan]

Welcome to Celtics Green rockinrondo!! We are happy you found us! I agree with you that this is one of the best boards on the web. I felt at home when I found it.

I was one who didn't want to trade Al for anything. But after the trade, I assessed what we had and even though I still think that we may regret trading Al because he is going to be a special player, I am thrilled with our Celtics now. Even though we have a shorter window with the big 3, I think we may be able to bring in better players to rebuild as they wear down and possibly continue at a high level. Plus we do have some young players who are going to be developing in Rondo, Powe, Perk, Davis, Pruitt, TA, and Wallace. This is going to be a fun season for Celtics fans.

[Deleted]

roadrunner said:

Well, I live in the present and the team assembled will bring championship #17 (perhaps #18 as well) to the Boston faithful.

Me too. I truely believe we should have atleast 1 title round with this celtics roster. If not, atleast we'll have plenty of cap space once these guys leave for retirement.

[DERRENMATTS]

No doubt, basketball IQ is very important for a team to be truly successful. You can get by with athletic ability and basketball skills, but if you don't have an understanding of the finer points of basketball and the team structure, you aren't going to be as successful as you can be. All the great ones had tremendous BBall IQ and basketball skills. Look at Magic Johnson--he had tremendous skills and IQ. Michael Jordan had tremendous basketball skills, athleticism, and BBall IQ. Bird had basketball skills and BBall IQ. WIthout the IQ, you can't get far.

I think if we had Oden, and we kept our young core, we could have been a powerhouse team. I'm optimisitc that we could have competed for championships, simply because our roster would have been full of really good players, and a few star caliber players. Everytime I pop in a game from last season, and watch Jefferson, I just shake my head in disbelief that he is no longer going to be in our plans. The kid was blossoming right before our eyes, into a star. His confidence was growing at such a rate that by the end of the season, he felt he belonged in this league and could compete against anyone.--including Duncan and other big name big men. His footwork and post moves were becoming so crips, and so efficient that he had guys falling for his fakes, and he had them guessing as to what he was going to do. Jefferson can become a go-to guy.

You are right about Gerald Green. So far he hasn't shown much of his basketball IQ. But I wonder how much of that is because he was concentrating so much on what he had to do? He was thinking about so many things that he couldn't let his natural instincts take over.

But yes, I'm along with you all. I'm excited for this team and can't wait for the season to start. I'm just going to have to put my trust in the future that all will work out for the best.

[goceltics34]

Oden was the only option here. Losing the lottery forced the team not to sit on their butts and accept what could've been another losing season. Alot of people laughed at us when we lost, because we were tanking at the end of last season and we didn't get that pick, but who's laughing now. All they can say is we have no bench, you only have a small window, nonsense like that. Oden would've been great, but like i've said before Boston isn't a patient town, especially for a franchise with 16 titles, they expect to compete every season.

Also we wouldn't have been able to keep all of these young guys. All of the guys we traded to minnesota are due for contract extensions pretty soon. Jefferson is a lock to be resigned and maybe gerald, but beyond that nothing is for certain. We had to make a move bottom line.