Keep the 5th pick, or keep Pierce

[Roadrunner]

Darko is like a rich man's version of 'skita. No.

[celticfan]

eja117 said:

PP is an overrated player. We talk about him like he's a top 5 player at his position. He's not.

That's just plain assinie
I think you're waaaaaaaaaay undervaluing Paul and what he can do. He started off the year playing very well, got hurt and didn't play like he could.
The man has had to shoulder the burden in Boston for several years now as Ainge and crew wait to see who amongst their young talent is gonna pan out and who isn't.
Paul is able to do it all and do it all very well. If he comes back 100% and Al continues to work on his endurance and game,they could make a very leathal inside out combo.
Still this team as it is, is not very good. Especially without Paul
The inability to stop an 18 game losing streak proves this. I mean if the rest of these players were as talented as many proclaim, how could they not put forth the effort to win a few more games without Paul? They couldn't because Paul on the floor makes it that much easier for the rest of the team. Teams have to pay attention to Paul.
Without Paul, we have some so-so starting talent and mostly good off the bench talent save for Rondo and Al.
Wally's too big a defensive liability to start and too damn injury prone period.
Perk just can't stay on the floor long enough because he doesn't know how to play D without fouling.
Green is tantalizing but the dude has to borrow a quarter and buy a clue (crossing my fingers that this happens)
Delonte is a great 3rd guard to come of the bench and provide a spark
Gomes is gomes, a great 7th or 8th man, but if he has to play more than 15 mins, well we're in trouble
Powe is one year in the league, you can't say right now what will become of him. He could improve like gomes did or he could be at his peak now. need another 2-3 years to tell.
The wild card is Allen. He was playing really well just before the injury. He could be a solid starter if he bounces back healthy, or he could revert to his wildy inconsistent ways.

Someone posted on here we don't need a vet added to the team.
I disagree.
A Solid vet precense on this team, one that can play regualrly (theo, wally) could stabilize the inconsistencies and provide leadership to help this team realise it's potential.
If we keep the #5 pick, we've just added more potential and not enough minutes to develop all of the potential.
If Ainge is patient he could get a very good offer for the pick.

Trading Paul just puts the team 2 steps back IMO.

Paul is a hard worker, a great player (easily top 15 in the league) and can get the hard basket when the team needs one.
combined with Al in the post, they should provide a solid basis on which to build and hopefully at least make the playoffs next year. (which isn't saying much in the East)
Trading the #5 pick and spare change for a SOLID verteran who's got playoff experience and can help the team.. well we become a 4-6 seed and could perhaps see the 2nd round.

provided the main parts stay healthy.

[eja117]

There are this many sgs and sfs that can give PP a run for his money and are "stars"

Durant
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Loul Deng
Lebron
Josh Howard
Melo
Richard Hamilton
Tay Prince
Jason Richardson
Mike Miller
D Wade
Michael Redd
Vince Carter
Richard Jefferson when healthy
Peja when healthy
Andre Iguodala
Brandon Roy
Kevin Martin
Ray Allen
Rashard Lewis


other guys that play the position well
Anthony Parker
Shane Battier
Cutino Mobley
Ricky Davis
Kapono
Matt Carrol
T Mac
Kobe
Bruce Bowen
S Pavlovich
AK 47
Grant Hill
Wally when healthy
Tony Allen for about 2 months last year

Paul Pierce doesn't blow any of these guys away and some of them blow him away. He's not Jordan. Many of these guys are younger and make way less money.

Would you rather have PP for like 20mill or Josh Howard for 9mill? Or soon enough Corey Brewer or Julian Wright for 3 mill? Is PP 7 times as valuable as Corey Brewer? Cause that's about how much more he makes.

[celticfan]

eja117 said:

There are this many sgs and sfs that can give PP a run for his money and are "stars"

Durant
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Loul Deng
Lebron
Josh Howard
Melo
Richard Hamilton
Tay Prince
Jason Richardson
Mike Miller
D Wade
Michael Redd
Vince Carter
Richard Jefferson when healthy
Peja when healthy
Andre Iguodala
Brandon Roy
Kevin Martin
Ray Allen
Rashard Lewis


other guys that play the position well
Anthony Parker
Shane Battier
Cutino Mobley
Ricky Davis
Kapono
Matt Carrol
T Mac
Kobe
Bruce Bowen
S Pavlovich
AK 47
Grant Hill
Wally when healthy
Tony Allen for about 2 months last year

Paul Pierce doesn't blow any of these guys away and some of them blow him away. He's not Jordan. Many of these guys are younger and make way less money.

Would you rather have PP for like 20mill or Josh Howard for 9mill? Or soon enough Corey Brewer or Julian Wright for 3 mill? Is PP 7 times as valuable as Corey Brewer? Cause that's about how much more he makes.

First off, I think you're forgetting just how good Paul is

sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3253/career;_ylt=AsMI74cESu5G4z97CmNsCn2kvLYF

2ndly his experience makes the game easier for the rest of the team. the 18 game losing streak proved that quite clearly.

3rdly, you can't include undrafted player and assume they're gonna be great out of the box.

If we took brewer at the #5, you're basically saying you're willing to wait another 3-6 years to be good again.

as for that list... please!

RIP hamilton is a product of the system. With such an unselfish pistons team who works so well together he benefits. On another team, he'd have to create his shot way more.
G-Wallace looks like one of those numbers on a bad team guys who will diminish on a good team because he won't get as many shots. Kinda like Shareef or Damon Stoudamire
VC has no heart and dogs it at times. Would you seriously consider him better than Paul??? really?
Richard Jefferson/Jason Richardson.. nice role players who have way more holes in their game and do not have 1/2 the intangibles that Paul has. How RJ made an Olympic team is beyond my comprehension.. and his play their proved it too.
Peja is a wreck and can shoot and that's it and he's already proven he can't step up in the crunch

are you forgetting how clutch Paul has been for this team?


Ray Allen, Michael Redd are both 1 dimensional players

Martin?!?! has had 1.25 good season.. come on now

DWade, Mello are on his level but will soon surpass him

Lebron is an all time great I agree, Kobe is a better player too.

T-Mac can play better than Paul at times, but he's not very healthy and Paul outplays him plenty as well. For health reasons and the fact that Paul has actually seen the 2nd round, I'd place Paul ahead.

Iguodala and Deng have come on great this year, but they still are not better than Paul at this time.


Tay Prince -- see RIP

Josh Howard -- this guy is somewhat overhyped by the media. His disappearance in the playoffs said lots about his game.

as for top 5 at his position. well you got 2 posistion listed here.
so I'll make a list of 10 outta what you got.

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. DWade
4. Paul
5. Mello
6. T-Mac
7. VC
8. Deng
9. Joe Johnson
10. Igoudala
as for price.. Paul's only scheduled to make 16 mill next year.
he doesn't hit 20 until 2009.

again look at the stats and appreciate what the man means to this team.

[eja117]

Oh great. So he hits 20mill right as he gets old as all heck.

You could easily say PP dogs it. The whole young team is running and here comes old man PP who finally gets there and demands the ball, so all ball movemnet stops.

So you're saying you wouldn't trade PP for Loul Deng? And D Wade will soon surpass him? I forgot Caron Butler. He's an all-star too.

If PP makes twice as much money he should be twice as good, but he's not. There are a bunch of players on that list that if you trade them straight up neither team gets much better or worse.

PP is a big part of why we never won anything. Lebron is a player capable of leading his team to the finals as a senior in college. PP WAS a player capable of leading his team to a loss in the East Conference Finals against a team who had no chance of winning the finals when he was at his height. He was responsible for that. Not so bad. He won't be responsible for future sucess. He might be a part of it. He won't be why.

In 3 years if we are in the East Conference finals it'll be because of Al, Rondo, and maybe GG or the 5th pick. PP will help. That's it.

[celticfan]

bah Lebron is a bad example.
the cavs without Lebron are stil twice the team Boston is.
they're gonna get spanked in the Finals.
Kobe is doing about as well in the West as Paul is in the East and he's got an all-star level player with him in Lamar and he's got..... well let's just say a weee bit better coach to.

One player cannot do it alone.
Paul had a chance to bounce from Boston and go out West like many of his friends were telling him to. Instead he honored the Celtic tradition and signed an extension.
Caron Butler.. he's got 2 all-stars helping him out.
you seriously think he could deliver Pierce like numbers on this Boston team?
I don't know what to say.
Deng has come into his own but he's still not as good as Paul. He can't create as well nor pass 1/2 as well either.

[eja117]

You trade Lebron for PP and the Cavs go from Finals to an 8 seed and we go from out of the playoffs to winning the finals.

You trade Kobe for PP and both teams get worse.

You trade PP for Caron and the Wiz get better as long as PP and Arenas can coexist while we get worse

You trade PP for Deng and the Bulls get better, while we get worse for about a year or two, then we have a phenomenal team for a decade. Deng is far better in medium and long term

[celticfan]

yes because of his youth.
but the bulls wouldn't trade him.
Lebron.. Lebron is like talking about MJ or Wayne Gretzky.
they just shouldn't be used in comparison's with other players in the league.
that is when LeBron 'feels' like playing at his peak.

Hey Ainge should look around and see if anyone wants Paul.
I'd personally rather keep him and shop the #5, Theo's expiring contract and bits and pieces needed to aquire the right player to help al, paul and rondo bring the Celtics back to respectibility.
I like Jermaine O'Neal because he can play Center, Play D, score, rebound and with his decent jumper, give room to Al down low.

I think trading Paul and getting even younger, keeping the #5 leads to having too much young talent.
Too much?!?! yes. Too Much.
with Too much young talent to develop, it's gonna be hard to find mins. They're all young and confident of themselves, so each player belives they deserve more time over the other. It could lead to chemistry problems or the trading of an underdeveloped talent that blossoms on another team (Joe Johnson anyone?)

those are my concerns.
I also don't believe we should turn our back on Paul so easily either.

[freshnthehouse]

here's a little something i thunk up on the C's myspace page:

If we were to trade Pierce, I wouldnt mind exploring a trade with Golden State for two reason:

1. Pierce would prolly accept a trade to Golden State

2. They have trade pieces.

I would seriously consider a trade such as Pierce/future #1/Telfair for JRich/Ellis/Sarunas and the #18. Then send Ellis to Atlanta for the #11.

Now we have some options. We can use the #5 and #11 to get pick Brewer/JWright(whichevers better) and Hawes.

I like a roster of

Hawes
AlJeff
Brewer(or Wright)
Richardson
Rondo

Bench rotation-Perk, Green, TA, West)

In a few years, we would be Phoenix east with that line-up. But if we want to become a play-off team now, offer Theo/Green/#18/future #1 for Pau Gasol.

A starting five of:

Gasol
AlJeff
Wright(or Brewer)
Richardson
Rondo

Bench rotation-Hawes, Perk, TA, 2nd round swingman, West)

I'm liking that rotation now and for the future.

[celticfan]

not baaad. So long as Richardson doesn't have to do much but play and not be the man, he's a good player IMO. If he needs to step up.. forgetaboutit.
If Ainge did do something like this, I'd say he's gonna take Yi Jianlian if he's still around at #5 then because we're basically starting over.

I personally don't care for Hawes though. I think he's gonna be mediocre at best and a complete bust is what I'm leaning too.
I'll have to wait some time to find that out though.

[eja117]

freshnthehouse said:

I would seriously consider a trade such as Pierce/future #1/Telfair for JRich/Ellis/Sarunas and the #18. Then send Ellis to Atlanta for the #11.

I like that trade too, but I don't think they'd do it.