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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 5, 2007 9:18:14 GMT -5
than a good draft pick.
Winning those back to back OT games this weekend was probably the highlight of the season and I missed both games due to being out on the road visiting my kids. In fact, the Celtics pulled out of their long slump by winning two tough games earlier in the week and have spoiled 4 teams going for a playoff spot.
So in reality, the Celtics are far from the worst team in the league on paper, but then again parity is taking over the league with the exception of maybe six strong teams.
The WC has actually fewer teams above .500 then the EC.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Mar 5, 2007 10:44:27 GMT -5
I've never been one that is in favor of tanking Q. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I think it creates all sorts of crap when I'd much rather see this team performing to their potential. Take care of yourself and let the chips fall where they may. There's no guarentee if we tank that we even get the #1 pick anyways.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 5, 2007 12:06:11 GMT -5
Best part of this is that we are doing it without our secondary impact player - Tony Allen.
I still say we need a an upgrade at Center - and maybe an upgrade at the point - plus we all know we need an upgrade at coach but it looks like 2008 could be promising (but we thought that last year 2007 could be promising :rolleyes:)
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Post by mev17 on Mar 5, 2007 23:56:29 GMT -5
I've never been one that is in favor of tanking Q. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I think it creates all sorts of crap when I'd much rather see this team performing to their potential. Take care of yourself and let the chips fall where they may. There's no guarentee if we tank that we even get the #1 pick anyways. I couldn't agree more. Nothing would please me more than having our young guns play above .500 for March and April. Such a strong finish could very well carry into next year, and there are good players available in this draft that aren't named Durant and Oden (though I will still root that the ping pong balls fall our way  ) |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 6, 2007 0:18:40 GMT -5
But the dilemma is, we can't have it both ways. We can't win a lot of games and get a chance at a once-in-a-generation type player--in this draft, its one or the other. If we win a lot of games, we've essentially taken away our chances of grabbing Oden and Durant (as good as this draft is, no one in the draft comes close to these 2 guys). If we lose a lot of games, our chances at Oden or Durant increases, but fans get upset.
I don't think anyone here (aside from maybe one or two individuals) ever condoned tanking. We aren't happy to play Scalabrine 40 mpg to help us lose more games, we aren't happy with Doc's coaching that appears to be geared at losing us some games.
What many of us have been hoping for was to use this season as a developmental year for Jefferson, for Gerald, for Telfair and Rajon, for Leon Powe, for Tony Allen, etc. When all our injuries hit us (mainly Pierce and Wally, but Perk and Tony Allen as well), we realized that we weren't going to compete for the Eastern Conference title this season. So rather than play our veterans heavily and hope to maybe make the 8th and final playoff spot and lose, let our young guns play and gain a whole lot of experience this season so that next season, they will be better equipped to contribute. And in the process, if we lose, at least it helps us to be in position to draft franchise type players (Oden/Durant).
More than wanting to lose for the sake of getting Oden or Durant, I want Doc to let the young guys play and develop as much as possible this season. Losing will come with the territory, but the experience they'll gain will benefit the team next season.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 6, 2007 3:01:05 GMT -5
than a good draft pick. Winning those back to back OT games this weekend was probably the highlight of the season and I missed both games due to being out on the road visiting my kids. In fact, the Celtics pulled out of their long slump by winning two tough games earlier in the week and have spoiled 4 teams going for a playoff spot. So in reality, the Celtics are far from the worst team in the league on paper, but then again parity is taking over the league with the exception of maybe six strong teams. The WC has actually fewer teams above .500 then the EC. I'm sure this will come to no suprise to anyone, but I absolutely disagree with this. Do you honestly think us winning a handful of games towards the end of a lost season gives this team a better chance of a winning a title than scoring Greg Oden? You can't honestly believe that. Do you think the Spurs wouldve won more titles than the three have now if they wouldve brought back Robinson for the last month and a half of the 97-98 season? THis team as currently constructed, is not going to sniff a title. Not even close. We may have some good complimentary pieces on hand, but we still lack a game changing player. How do we get that game changing player? We get him by sucking it up for the rest of the year and hope the ping pong balls fall for us. |
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Mar 6, 2007 8:35:23 GMT -5
See I think we have 2 game changing players in Pierce and Jefferson Fresh. We are extremely young, if this team was playing to their potential I think we would be the 2nd or 3rd seed in the conference right now. I also think we potentially have several complimentary players in West, Gomes, Green, Allen, Perk, Rondo, Scal, Powe, WAlly etc.. I agree with those that say you build through the draft and all that, and we have been doing that/ Just look at all the players I mentioned. EVery one of them is a player we drafted minus Wally. They are just young. Even gomes people think he has tapped his potential but you hear him talk and he is extremely young. This team is still finding roles, doesn't know how or when to play defense, where to get the ball at the right times and all that stuff. How are we ever going to learn that if we are trying to lose?
Where we disagree fresh is I think we have the pieces to be an upper echelon team, and usually when you are that you don't need to tank to take that next step. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the only way to get that player. I look at this roster and I think we have the pieces for the most part. We could use another big guy and maybe another pg, and another wing to replace Wally, but we don't need to tank to get that.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Mar 10, 2007 9:17:04 GMT -5
than a good draft pick. Winning those back to back OT games this weekend was probably the highlight of the season and I missed both games due to being out on the road visiting my kids. In fact, the Celtics pulled out of their long slump by winning two tough games earlier in the week and have spoiled 4 teams going for a playoff spot. So in reality, the Celtics are far from the worst team in the league on paper, but then again parity is taking over the league with the exception of maybe six strong teams. The WC has actually fewer teams above .500 then the EC. I'm sure this will come to no suprise to anyone, but I absolutely disagree with this. Do you honestly think us winning a handful of games towards the end of a lost season gives this team a better chance of a winning a title than scoring Greg Oden? You can't honestly believe that. Do you think the Spurs wouldve won more titles than the three have now if they wouldve brought back Robinson for the last month and a half of the 97-98 season? THis team as currently constructed, is not going to sniff a title. Not even close. We may have some good complimentary pieces on hand, but we still lack a game changing player. How do we get that game changing player? We get him by sucking it up for the rest of the year and hope the ping pong balls fall for us. Memphis has a better than 50-50 shot of not getting one of the top two picks and they have to trade Gasol this summer no matter what. We on the other hand are showing improvement in the other players not named Pierce. The rest of the league is well ahead in number of wins. Our problem this year was injuries and poor coaching. Both should change next year and the team will improve and possibly take the quantum leap if we get lucky May 22. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 10, 2007 10:30:25 GMT -5
I reviewed the standings, and it seems like no matter how many games the Celtics win from now till the end of the season, finishing w/ the worst or second to worst record is predictable. It Memphis, the Celtics...then a drop to Seatle and Charlotte.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 10, 2007 10:43:45 GMT -5
I hate to say this but I have played that lottery thing on ESPN a good handful and I have many times gotten the 4th and 5th pick, so we need to prepare for that. We had by far the most balls in 1996 and picked third. Picking 4th this year would be similar and expected in some ways
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 11, 2007 2:47:29 GMT -5
I reviewed the standings, and it seems like no matter how many games the Celtics win from now till the end of the season, finishing w/ the worst or second to worst record is predictable. It Memphis, the Celtics...then a drop to Seatle and Charlotte. I dunno. Arent we within three games of Charlotte now? |
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Post by eja117 on Mar 11, 2007 8:45:55 GMT -5
I agree with fresh. We might keep winning.
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Post by meangreen on Mar 17, 2007 10:27:44 GMT -5
Hello every1, its a pleasure again 2b in the company of loyal fans of the green ;D. We obviously wanna see this team excell, but we don't all agree on how 2get there. In this debate on wheather 2win and build confindence and momentum or "tank" 4the sake of a draft pk is 1 that I2 have debated b4 and Im on the side of the latter. "Tank" has bad connotation, like ur tryin 2loose on purpose, which I don't condone  . If the guys play juuuuust good enough 2loose its the best of both worlds ;D. The guys play hard, but they're just out gunned. No1 thinks the team is tryin 2loose but yet we impove and/or maintain our draft status ;D. The team(owners, gm, etc) u have 2remember put us in this positon 2have 2debate this issue. Maybe if we'd had a better coach than Doc we wouldn't be in this positon  . Not only are we a young team that makes mistakes and is growin, but we've a below 2avg coach leadin us, almost the worst of both worlds . Itd'b different if we were a vet team that could afford 2make mistakes and still over come them, but as u all know we're not. I agree w/u CF we've talent on this team, but I don't know if we're as talented as uve assessed, but w/a good coach its not out of the realm that we could be up there in that postion. 2expound on what fresh said, if the spurs the yr b4 they got Duncan would've tried 2win more gms, would they've had the chance 2draft Duncan? We already know how it turned out, they got Duncan and some titles 2go w/it, somethin we ALLLLLL would've taken 4this team. What's better 4the team, Durant/Oden and a new coach 2go w/it or wins, confidence, and Doc 4another yr maybe more? If any of you were spurs fans would you regret loosin those gms @the end of the season 2get Dunc? Im a 9ers fan in football and the past couple of yrs Ive had the same attitude of playin juuuust good enough 2loose. The young guys we get in will learn and take thier lumps now and in the draft we choose the best players available 2suit our need, add FAs wisely, 'till eventually we're good enough 2root 4us 2challenge and/or win a title which is the ultimate goal. We need another dominate or go2 player and a coach. We don't need a ton of player's thanks 2DA, but we do need a coach, @least I think so, I mean Eja, CF, and I have debated that already on the "Doc is drivin me nuts" thread ;D ;D. 4me the perfect situation would be if we lost gms, not tanked them, Doc's fired, we get oden/durant, and a good coach that'll be able 2use the talents on this team to the fullest. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 17, 2007 13:53:22 GMT -5
Hey there, MeanGreen. Likewise, glad to have a loyal Celtics fan chatting here with us.
The best case scenario would be if our guys play their hardest in an attempt to win, but lose a very close game (like last night's Dallas game).
Hopefully, all the tragedies we've been through this season--with all the injuries and the death of Red and DJ--will net us Greg Oden. Just seems like its destiny.
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Post by meangreen on Mar 17, 2007 14:40:53 GMT -5
I agree w/u DMatts, ur rootin 4them 2loose playin as hard as they can, but w/o just tankin the season. Even w/Docs mis-mgmt of the team they're still playin hard. Saw some hard criticisms of Doc on the Cs message board on espn. I find it hard 2believe that some people actually think Doc should stay  . We've already had that debate though ;D ;D. |
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. If the guys play juuuuust good enough 2loose its the best of both worlds ;D. The guys play hard, but they're just out gunned. No1 thinks the team is tryin 2loose but yet we impove and/or maintain our draft status ;D. The team(owners, gm, etc) u have 2remember put us in this positon 2have 2debate this issue. Maybe if we'd had a better coach than Doc we wouldn't be in this positon 
. Not only are we a young team that makes mistakes and is growin, but we've a below 2avg coach leadin us, almost the worst of both worlds 