cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Dec 8, 2006 10:45:50 GMT -5
How dare I say such a thing! I know a lot of people have put their undying faith in DA, but I would say yes, yes he is. He has made some solid selections don't get me wrong, but I still look at this team's roster 3 years later and I'm not impressed. I personally think a better job could have been done. I'm not saying DA isn't capable and isn't a good GM, I just don't think he is the savior and unflappable person that people have made him out to be.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2006 12:19:09 GMT -5
My opinion, and it is probably a bit biased because I do llike Ainge, is that he's done a good job of drafting good players, but our coaching staff has not done a good job of developing players. Now, I can't blame all this on Rivers (though I may try) because he's not going to be able to develop 11 young players (3 of them high school picks) easily.
But I do blame him for impeding their growth. Honestly, we should have been rolling the dice with them 3 years ago. Gomes should have been playing earlier last year, and Powe needs to be playing right now. Same with Rajon, Gerald and Allan Ray. Don't limit their playing time--let them go out there and learn from their mistakes.
Taking a look at Ainge's picks, we see that he hasn't had much to work with in terms of high first round picks.
In '03, with very little time to scout and review draftees, Ainge made his 1st pick as Head of Operations for the Celtics. He wanted badly to improve our PG and big man spots and I think he swung for the fences and whiffed on Marcus Banks. He should have gone after Luke Ridnour, but he gambled on the player who had tremendously more athleticism, speed and strength. Banks is no longer here, and Ridnour is set to be Seattle's PG for the next decade. Ainge then tried to shore up our frontcourt by taking Perkins at 27 (I'm not the biggest Perk fan in the world, but he is a defensive and rebounding player in the making). Leandro Barbosa, Josh Howard, Zaza Pachulia, Mo Williams and Kyle Korver were all available. Perk could turn out to have more success than any of those guys, so we'll keep crossing our fingers.
In '04, he could have taken Josh Smith or Jameer Nelson, but elected to go with Al Jefferson. Good move because big men with bright futures are always harder to find. With the 24th and 25th picks, he went with Delonte and Tony. The only players taken after them (including 2nd rounders) who are having success in the NBA now are Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao and Chris Duhon. Yeah, either one of those guys could be playing well for us right now, but we still haven't seen the best of Tony Allen so I'll hold my judgment a while longer.
In '05 we took Gerald at 18. Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack, Hakim Warrick and David Lee were all available to take at 18, but Ainge obviously made the right choice with Green. And then for getting Gomes with the 50th pick was also a tremendous move.
This year, he sent the 7th pick to Portland in order to get Telfair and later, he used a future 1st round pick to get Rajon. IMO, both were very good moves. Telfair and Rajon will emerge once Doc allows them to use their PG skills. We can already see the devastating effects of Rajon's defensive prowess. The guy is an impact defender already in his rookie season.
Some of the trades Ainge has made are a bit harder to gauge because it involved getting back injured players in return (Raef and Wally). But it does seem to have benefitted us. Antoine needed to go and whatever we got for him was all Ainge could get (Walker's value was really low at that time). And trading Ricky away has turned out to be a really good trade. Ricky's value around the league also wasn't that high because not many teams wanted him because of his checkered past. I really see the value of having a good shooter like Wally to come off picks and hit those catch and shoot jumpers and I think he's a better fit with our system than Pierce.
So all in all, I think Ainge has done a terrific job with what he's had to work with. He hasn't been able to reel in stars like O'Neal, KG or Iverson, or catch any big time free agents, but he was given an absolute disaster when he inherited this ballclub and it'll take time to get things in order. But he's done a quick job of overhauling our old, talentless team into a young and talented one. We are a couple of key players and a real good coach away from the promised land.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Dec 8, 2006 15:13:26 GMT -5
I'm not questioning Ainge's picks, he's made the correct picks on most occasions, my main question about Ainge is his philosophy. What is it? Where is it? Couldn't we have packaged some of these picks to acquire an impact player higher in the draft, instead of drafting lower? Couldn't we have packaged Antoine, Pierce, etc, to get better young players? He could have had Chris Paul for Pierce at one point and Ainge declined it. This is the stuff I'm talking about. All offense, no defense, the hiring of Doc Rivers, no direction in site for this team, except wait about 5 more years and see. Ainge came in with a pretty cocky attitude that he was going to turn this around in a few years time and so far he has not been true to his word. If anything he has turned it around though maybe, we went from a good team to a very bad one.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 8, 2006 16:09:44 GMT -5
I hated the team we were when DA took over. I hated that all they did was shoot 3s. I hated that there was not even an attempt at a beginning of a big man presence on the team. I liked the coach. I hated the job we did drafting, picking Kedrick Browns and trading away Joe Johnsons. We may have been winning some games but we were going absolutely nowehere. If Chris Paul had become the next Shaun Livingston or Marcus Banks we'd just be out a star player. He doesn't have a crystal ball. Chris Paul wasn't Oden or Lebron or even Melo. This team wouldn't seem so young and the players would seem to have a clue had they gotten (and continued to get) the playing time they deserve. The problem is his reluctance to get rid of Doc. I wonder if he ever watches practices. What does DA think when he hears Doc say "The reason Scala plays is cause he beats out the other guys in practice." He gives Doc the right players and Doc misuses them and he does nothing. That's why I'm losing faith in DA.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Dec 8, 2006 17:31:59 GMT -5
Danny doesn't have a crystal ball, but when I heard rumors about that trade I would have done it. I loved chris paul coming out and he was the player I wanted that draft. Not to say I could do a better job than Danny boy, but sometimes I think I could. You say Danny doesn't have a crystal ball, then why is he a GM, isn't that what makes a good GM? To have a vision and to actually fullfil that vision. According to Ainge he had a vision and its 3 years later and we stink, so it appears his vision is not working as of now. did Danny lie? He clearly stated it would take 3 years, to fulfill his vision and the way it looks like it, this is going to take another 5 years. With doc as coach and this team playing the way it is, there is no way this team will compete as is unless a serious attitude adjustment happens and the young players start playing up to their potential.
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Post by goceltics34 on Dec 8, 2006 18:03:40 GMT -5
Derren hit the nail on the head. The coaching staff stinks. If jerry sloan, phil jackson, scott skiles had this team we'd be at least at .500. I'm sick of rivers,he stinks and must go.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2006 20:48:07 GMT -5
Danny was the one who was trying to land Chris Paul, but Pierce must have told him he wasn't going to go to Portland, so the deal was knixed. I think Portland was going to do it, and if Pierce was willing to go there, Chris Paul would have been ours.
GC34, I often wonder how our team would be playing if Jerry Sloan was our coach. We've got more talent on our team than do the Jazz, but we're not at their level.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 8, 2006 20:52:32 GMT -5
Danny was the one who was trying to land Chris Paul, but Pierce must have told him he wasn't going to go to Portland, so the deal was knixed. I think Portland was going to do it, and if Pierce was willing to go there, Chris Paul would have been ours. GC34, I often wonder how our team would be playing if Jerry Sloan was our coach. We've got more talent on our team than do the Jazz, but we're not at their level. I don't think we have more talent on the team than the Jazz. On the contrary, they have the best starting five and the best coach in the league. That is a tough combination to beat.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2006 20:58:12 GMT -5
Nah, our starting 5, once developed, will be better than there's (Telfair, Wally, Pierce, Jefferson, Perk). And that's the problem at hand--our players aren't developing--at least not quickly enough.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 8, 2006 21:28:41 GMT -5
i don't mind that DA didn't get Chris Paul cause he got Rondo much cheaper. He also got Telfair who could possibly be better. Also who would you rather have? Chris Paul for $77 million or Delonte for $15 mill? It just doesn't matter, cause if Chris Paul were on this team he'd be getting 22 mins per game and Doc would talk about how Gary Payton was beating him out in practice.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 8, 2006 23:23:42 GMT -5
5 years from now, give the eval.
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Post by mev17 on Dec 9, 2006 0:00:23 GMT -5
Right now, with Boozer and Okur, plus AK47 adding his defensive presence from the 3, the Jazz have a much better front line than we do. But Sloan is also a very good coach -- I can't see his point guard launching a contested 3 point shot when he was instructed to pass the ball to a cutting teammate.
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Post by mev17 on Dec 9, 2006 0:04:02 GMT -5
BTW, as to the question of Ainge being overrated, I would say no because, outside of green-koolaid-drinking Celtic fans, Ainge has his fair share of critics out there.
He has drafted well, and has been willing to shake up rosters that weren't working, but one can question some of his trades and signings. I have more faith in him than the previous regime, but am getting anxious to see some signs of improvement on the basketball court.
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