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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 5, 2006 0:42:58 GMT -5
Are we the only team that doesn't know the value of the pick and roll? Has setting screens been banned in Boston? Are the players hardwired only to pass the ball to the guy wearing the #34? Is there a red light on our end of the court that forces us to stop running?
This is getting uglier and uglier. Lets start off first with our PG's. We have two of the quickest PG's in the league who love to play uptempo and use their creativity to make basketball fun to watch again, but they continually have the ball taken out of their hands. Instead, we give it to Delonte, who now looks lost at both guard positions. He can't feed the ball into the post even if no one is guarding him. And he's got a sweet shooting stroke, but Doc doesn't use screens to get him open.
Next on the list; Doc doesn't use our big men properly. Gomes and Jefferson were having a field day in the post, but Doc avoids getting the ball to them. Both Jefferson and Gomes were spotted above the free throw line, setting up as high post men to free up Pierce to drive to the basket. Problem is, it wasn't working. Deng is too long and he stays in front of Pierce well and he gave Pierce fits all night long. But characteristically, Doc continues to push the ball unto Pierce while going away from what was working (our big men).
Later, he does what he should have done earlier, and puts Powe, Rajon and Gerald into the game. But he doesn't call any plays for them, essentially rendering them useless. If this is going to be garbage time for the kids, at least run Gerald or Allan Ray through some screens to open them up for good looks at the basket. Or give Powe some isolation plays in the post. At the very least, have Rondo carve his way to the hoop by running pick and rolls instead of taking the ball out of his hands.
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Post by pubanwo on Dec 5, 2006 7:17:38 GMT -5
It's going to be a long season but that's to be expected.
This team actually misses guys like Raef and Blount. The veteran presence is missing.
Is it sad that this team seems better constructed when an aging Theo Ratliff was in at the Center spot?
Sure we've had our fair share of injuries but our young guys are suppose to be making significant progress this year.
We're suppose to be a .500 ballclub that's on the cusp of winning 50 games according to Danny.
We're not even close.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Dec 5, 2006 7:24:09 GMT -5
i agre with you derren - i don't understand why we don't use pick-and-roll, decent zone defense, post play. it seems as if doc doesn't know half of the things that one can read in basketball abc. the worst of all - if he doesn't teach it, our young guys don't develop these very necessary skills.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 5, 2006 10:35:47 GMT -5
Right, I mean, c'mon, the pick and roll is basic stuff. Its one of the first things you learn in basketball. Our guys don't even know how to set proper picks. Gomes usually does a good job of rolling after attempted picks, but last night, there were about 2 or 3 in which he totally declined to roll towards the basket after the pick, and had he done that, he could have had a wide open layup or dunk. I was practically screaming at Gomes (but he more than made up for that with his cleanup performance).
I just don't understand why we don't use something this simple to start getting back on track.
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Post by greenblood on Dec 5, 2006 12:44:39 GMT -5
You said it Derren. I mean, they kept feeding the rock to PP last night, when Deng obviously had him measured up. Ok, so Doc goes into a game with plan in the first half, and decides to stick to it. Fine. But when they come out in second half with the same exact plan that had no chanceo of working just illustrates how imcompetent Doc is as a head coach in the NBA. I might be able to understand if Paul was getting open looks and just not knocking them down, but to keep giving him the ball when Deng was simply too much for him was inexcusable.
Last night was simply a snapshot of this entire season. Doc either can't or won't stand up to Pierce. Too many times the ball starts to move, we start to run, only to have Pierce slow things down so that he can create for himself. Telfair has been playing well enough to at least give him the ball and let him create for others. He has the ability and the desire to do this, so why not give it a shot. I know Pierce carries a lot of clout both on the court and in the front office, but Doc has to be able to tell him to get rid of the ball and fill lane. It is the coaches job to make sure his players are in the appropriate positions to make the team it's most competitive, not the other way around. Big Al needs to get some touches in the low post where he can be most effective not only scoring but opening up good shots for his teamates. He should not be receiving the ball in the high post, where he is prone to turnovers and bad passes simply because he lacks the ability and bball IQ right now to create anything positive for his team right now.
Now, this is not all Doc's fault. Danny needs to decide which direction this team goes in. Right now, what is going on makes no sense. Paul and Wally obviously need help now in order for this team to be competitive. Either the young guys aren't ready or just arent talented enough, either way it makes no sense to have them on this team if the 8th seed in a bad conference isn't even realistic. If he wants to keep both guys, he should overpay in the way of draft picks, bloated salaries, young "pieces", and bring in some veterans who not only understand how to play and win, but who are also hungry to win now, not 5 years from now. This could give the team a 5 year window or so in which to be a perrenial 50+ win team in the East and maybe add a piece or two in the middle said window in order to make a run at a title.
The other direction, which I would totally understand would be to trade both Pierce and Wally, and bring in a slew of talented, yet untapped kids. This of course would lead to poor results win wise in the near future, but it would give them some direction as well as high draft picks in which to build a team around. Possible a top 3 pick and they could land a Chris Paul/Tim Duncan type that would speed up the process. This would also free up salary and provide the team with flexibility in future trades.
Some changes need to be made and a direction must be decided upon, or we will be experiencing the frustation for years to come!!
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 5, 2006 12:59:38 GMT -5
What can I say?
Maybe we need to do all three things.
1) Fire Doc 2) Fire Danny 3) Trade Wally and Paul.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2006 14:10:07 GMT -5
What can I say? Maybe we need to do all three things. 1) Fire Doc 2) Fire Danny 3) Trade Wally and Paul. I'm leading towards this direction. As much as i hate losing, at the same time i can't take half-!!!GREENIAC!!! management. Put Wally and Pierce on teams that can use them because they aren't going to be utilize well on this franchise. Doc and Danny should go because they have not delivered. We need true winners with a good background in managing a team. Neither of these fools have that credential. Wyc stop being soft its time to put your foot down.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 5, 2006 16:01:48 GMT -5
I def. dont think that Ainge should be fired. What options have been out there to build a championship contender? What moves were out there that could realistically be made? I guess he couldve traded everything we had for Iverson, but I for one am glad he didnt. We couldve picked up BDavis's huge contract and questionable desire, but Im glad he didnt. I'd much rather have a GM who has patience over a GM who will make a trade and lock us in as a 40-50 win team for the forseeable future just to appease the fans.Ainge's eye for talent alone is worth keeping him around.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 5, 2006 16:02:41 GMT -5
It's going to be a long season but that's to be expected. This team actually misses guys like Raef and Blount. The veteran presence is missing. Is it sad that this team seems better constructed when an aging Theo Ratliff was in at the Center spot? Sure we've had our fair share of injuries but our young guys are suppose to be making significant progress this year. We're suppose to be a .500 ballclub that's on the cusp of winning 50 games according to Danny. We're not even close. Good to see you around Puba.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 5, 2006 16:53:04 GMT -5
Imagine how eye openningly amazing it would be if the players walked in tomorrow and were told "Last nite Doc was fired and PP was traded away. Meet your new coach. "
I don't have a problem with DA but his inability to act on a serious problem is a serious problem. Wally also isn't the problem.
The major problem here is that the team isn't winning, but it should be. There's no lack of talent, health, speed, bball IQ, or physical ability. There are other problems.
You gotta look at who's helping the team win as well.
PP. I'm not sure he's helping. We have to face the facts that he isn't Lebron nor will he be. I am ready to test out the Ewing Theory on him. Draft picks and a young big man with potential would definitely do it for me. Like Alridge and two future 1rsts would make me go giddy. However there are lots of good players that haven't won anything. Nash makes every team he touches better and hasn't won anything. Marion, Stoudamire, KG, Kidd, Carter, TMac, Kobe, AI. Trade PP for any of them and maybe we get to the playoffs but not the championship. Also some of them get paid more, but haven't won anything. The only players that are major parts of championship teams are Shaq, Duncan, Wade, and that's it and they aren't for sale. If Kobe wants to put his name on that list fine. I personally think if you have Shaq and any all-star swing man you will be very close to a championship, but there's no denying they put up phenomenal stats. The Pistons didn't have any one player. That was a once in a lifetime thing. That leaves us with Lebron and Novitzki as players that have potential to bring you a championship. In the future Oden will probably be on that list. None of these players are for sale. PP is a little lower on the list with the Brands, Redds, and Baron Davises of the world. Trade PP for any of them and I don't think we're much better or worse off. And even if we do aweful and all out dreams come true and we get Oden what will happen when someone tells PP "you aren't the best player on the team. He is. Now pass it to him". This is why I want to trade PP. He doesn't deserve his contract. Lebron does. He doesn't.
I'm also. Really nervous that if we get a Chris Paul type that we become a team good enough to not go to the lottery again, which is what we were for a long time. There are a lot of teams banking on their Chris Pauls and Emekas and Howards and Randolphs and I'm not so sure how that will work for them
Wally. I really think he's helping. I think without him the team would go insane.
Perk. Took a step back. He has become a different version of Montross. We can no longer depend on him to be a top 15 center in the future. This is the year he was supposed to start scoring. It isn't happening,
Al. Definitely improving. Helping. Taking steps forward. There is still hope.
Bassy. See Al
Rondo. By far the best pg in the league not getting play time and if he could get some I could prove it.
Powe. By far the best young pf in the league not getting play time and if he could get some I could prove it.
Scala. The best 12th thru 15th man in the league. Unfortunately Doc thinks he's our 7th, cause he is apparently beating up on a junior at Cal in practice every day. And since Doc says it's happening it must be true. I mean it's not like Doc has ever been suspected of having a hard time evaluating talent or anything.
GG. By far the best young swing man in the league not getting play time and if he could get some I could prove it.
West. It's hard to say. He has obviously taken a step back. His shooting is horrible. But he's tough and plays two positions.
Gomes. The best 6th man in the league. Unfortunately for us at the moment Doc thinks he is our thrid man.
TA Has mostly fallen off the radar. There's no real reason why. Possibly cause he can't pass.
Allan Ray. He'd be a good West fill in if anything happened to him. Till then I assume he does well in the NBDL but nobody really knows.
Kandi. just the fact that he is in the league means he has taken a step forward. A great third center on any team. He's hurt though.
Ratliff. The fact he has a large expiring contract next year makes him one of the most attractive players on the team.
We can't win like this. It's time we treated at least TA the way we treated Kedrick Brown. There is no way in heck we should resign him. The rest of this team is in a situation where either Doc goes or they should. Obviously Doc can't coach them, which means we either give him all new players or we get rid of him. The trade value isn't so much there any more. I'm not sure we can trade an Al J, GG, and West for a Brand any more. At one time maybe we could, but I'm not so sure now. We missed our shot. Now hopefully our reward is a very very very good college player or else not much changes. Unless they get rid of Doc or a lot of players. It's way easier to get rid of Doc and I think the players are better players than Doc is coach.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 5, 2006 18:03:13 GMT -5
Fantastic post, GreenBlood. We do have to move in a different direction, and I'm more interested in rolling with the young talent than stick with Pierce and whoever we can get in a trade for our young guys. Unless we can trade our young talent for Duncan, Shaq, Yao, or some other top shelf big man, whoever we put next to Pierce will not bring us a championship.
Agree with Fresh and Eja--do not let go of Danny Ainge. He's brought us a lot of good talent, but our coaches haven't been able to bring out the best out of the young guys. Keep Danny, but get a new head coach and coaching staff.
Wally is good for this team. I'd keep him ahead of Pierce.
Pierce is a really high level player, but at this time, isn't a good fit for our team.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 5, 2006 21:29:29 GMT -5
I have to hand it to EJ for taking the time to write out all that. I'm becoming of the trade Paul Pierce for school but his trade value is not that great for a player of his stature. Do we trade him to Seattle for Rashard Lewis and Robert Swift for instance? Or to Golden State for Jason Richardson and Patrick O'Bryant? This is decisions Danny Ainge is paid to make.
Wally is a nice player and an effective scorer and a smarter player than Pierce. Pierce is turning into a turnover machine and last night's performance in Chicago was an absolute disgrace.
As for Scalabrine, his added PT wreaks with showcasing. I am fed up with him. I am fed up with Pierce.
Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo can be a devasting defensive and fast breaking unit along with Gerald Green, Jefferson and Powe. I want to see more of this fivesome wreaking havoc on the basketball court.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 5, 2006 21:54:23 GMT -5
You know DA has given Doc everything he could possibly want. if Doc wants to go big he could play Perk, and Al, and rotate in Powe, Gomes, and Kandi. If Doc wants speed, he can put out GG, and Rondo, and rotate in Bassy and West and TA, and Al and Gomes can keep up in that too. If he wants to go for vets he has some in PP and Wally and he has a mature Gomes, and he has Scala. But no. Doc can't figure it out. He has to play fast confused youth who are intimidated by vets with vets like PP who just suck down the ball. Then he brings in Scala, and does nothing to help Gomes. He is basically saying to the vets like PP and Scala "None of this is your fault". Then he turns to us and says "It isn't my fault" So who's fault is it? It must be the young guys. They're the only ones left. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
WRONG! WRONG AGAIN!! NOPE! YOU'RE STILL WRONG!!! Still wrong Doc. Still wrong. Getting wronger. he can't get more wrong. Oh never mind. Here comes Scala. he'll save us. He's so good. It's so obvious. See i don't know anything about basketball so i just can't see how great he is. But that Doc. He sees it. What would we ever do without him?
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 6, 2006 2:55:01 GMT -5
I have to hand it to EJ for taking the time to write out all that. I'm becoming of the trade Paul Pierce for school but his trade value is not that great for a player of his stature. Do we trade him to Seattle for Rashard Lewis and Robert Swift for instance? Or to Golden State for Jason Richardson and Patrick O'Bryant? This is decisions Danny Ainge is paid to make. Wally is a nice player and an effective scorer and a smarter player than Pierce. Pierce is turning into a turnover machine and last night's performance in Chicago was an absolute disgrace. As for Scalabrine, his added PT wreaks with showcasing. I am fed up with him. I am fed up with Pierce. Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo can be a devasting defensive and fast breaking unit along with Gerald Green, Jefferson and Powe. I want to see more of this fivesome wreaking havoc on the basketball court. I only want to trade pierce for young talent and pick(s). If we trade for a Jason richardson or a rashard lewis, we would still win too many games to score quality draft picks. Id rather bottom out and rebuild through the draft than keep spinning our wheels with picks in the 10-20 range. Also, I dont buy that we are showcasing Scalabrine. Why would anyone trade for him? His getting playing time is a sad reminder of how bad our other PFs are at playing D. Say what you want about Veal, but he's a pretty solid defender that is always a pain in his man's side.
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