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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 2, 2006 22:10:12 GMT -5
We've all been searching for answers as to why both Powe and Rondo have been neglected the playing time they deserve. Its obvious that both can contribute a lot towards our success if they are played, and maybe that's why we have a 5 - 10 record as we speak.
But maybe, just maybe, not giving them playing time is the best move Doc can do for our future (hear me out before you click out of this thread). He could be hiding them so that they aren't traded away. Powe and Rondo could easily be asked for in a trade because they are young and cheap and have a lot of potential. With more seasoning, these two can be impact players because they add specific skills that are highly desired on any team. Powe provides physical rebounding and low post scoring while Rondo provides supersonic speed, stiflying defense, and creative playmaking abilities. Any team would love to ask for these guys if we are talking trades.
This could also be the reason why Gerald Green, despite showing more and more improvements on a weekly basis, has also been given very limited playing time. Teams would jump all over him in any trade talks if he was blowing up right now. Same with Al Jefferson. He's a 10 and 7 guy off the bench right now and could probably bump those stats up to 14 and 9 if he was starting and getting fed the ball more often.
Its obvious that these 4 guys can offer strong contributions when they are given the minutes to showcase their goods, and that may be the reason why they aren't playing that much, or at all. Doc and Ainge may not want to showcase these players because he's hoping to hide them and hold onto them as much as possible.
I can sleep at nights if this is the reason for all the DNP-CD's.
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Post by Celtic17 on Dec 2, 2006 23:32:34 GMT -5
Not sure I can chew on this one DM. Even if they were playing good doesn't mean we would have to trade them. Teams that might want them know what their potential is already. I believe the DNPs are just Doc being Doc being a crappy coach.
I see what you're thinking Derren - just don't agree. Why would it be an issue if these guys were given time and played well?
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Dec 3, 2006 3:30:28 GMT -5
rondo grren and al all need more playing time. those three are absolute untouchables at this point
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 3, 2006 3:59:37 GMT -5
I'm sure you guys know the concept of showcasing a player. We've often used that term when Blount was here playing all those minutes even though he averaged more turnovers than rebounds. By giving Blount all those minutes, he was able to pad his scoring stats and we hoped that he would look more attractive to a potential trade partner.
Well, inversely, by not playing a player, teams can't scout him and get a good gauge of how good he really is. You see, many teams have scouted Rondo and Powe prior to the draft, but passed on them (Rondo because of his poor shooting and Powe because of his knees). But if we played Rondo and Powe a lot of minutes, they would be proving how foolish all these teams were for passing up on them. And these teams who Ainge may be talking to may now want Rondo or Powe.
Look at Monta Ellis, the second year player out of high school. He was tabbed as a mid first round pick last draft, but actually lasted till the second round as teams passed on him. Well, last year, I doubt many teams would have wanted him include in trade talks because he wasn't doing anything. But this year, he's exploded with all the playing time that Don Nelson has given him, and I'm almost certain that teams who are talking with Golden State are asking for him in any trade talks.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 3, 2006 8:58:35 GMT -5
I think the real reason is that Doc is getting pressured from management to win. In his opinion, that is playing the vets.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 3, 2006 11:05:02 GMT -5
I had thoughts about this at 3am or so last night but forgot them. It'll come back to me. i don't know. These conspiratorial things don't always make sense to me. They do but they don't. I mean Jordan played a lot as a young guy and they made trades without trading him. We made trades without trading Bird.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 4, 2006 3:25:12 GMT -5
Well, you obviously wouldn't trade Jordan. But Rajon and Powe aren't franchise players like Jordan was. They aren't untouchables, but we certainly hope to hold onto them as much as we can.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 4, 2006 9:33:01 GMT -5
Derren originally I was with you on this as a possibility but now the more I think of it the more I'm not sure. I sorta see it in some ways and not as much in others. For example, if they hide Powe doesn't that mean other teams are more likely to ask for Al J and Gomes? Do you think this is what they want? I can see hiding Rondo and wanting to trade West or Bassy more, but not Powe.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 4, 2006 10:36:08 GMT -5
No sense in hiding Jefferson because he has sparked interest around the league since his rookie season and I'm sure teams have been asking about him as well. But Ainge is smart and has not, and will not depart with Al, unless some trade comes up that's too good to pass up. As for Gomes, he's one of our "glue" guys, but he could be on the table for the right price.
Doc speaks out about why he plays Scalabrine and not Powe in today's articles. Scal is outplaying Powe in practice and it wouldn't be right to play Powe before Scal because it'll send out the wrong message to those who are battling to earn minutes. I really think Scal has been playing a lot better than last year and he's being used the right way (not as a playmaker or a three point king like he tried to be last season). But he and Powe play differently and we need to incorporate both aspects. Scal is good about defending big men who can sway away from the basket (like Bosh, Jermaine, etc.) while Powe is better at playing physical inside the paint. Both are needed at this time and shouldn't be neglected.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 4, 2006 16:01:11 GMT -5
That's great except for one thing. I don't believe for one second that Scal keeps outplaying Powe in practice. I also don't believe that GG is getting manhandled or that West and Bassy are really taking it to Rondo. I also don't think that Raef or Blount were really outplaying Perk all those years or that Al was getting beat up by say Scala last year. I guess Doc expects us to think it's just a cruel fluke of a trick of fate that Powe is far better than Scala every time he gets on the court. I mean who are you gonna believe (Derren)? Doc, or your own lyin eyes? Even if Scala is beating Powe in practice Powe is a rookie in his junior year in the PAC-10. He's supposed to be getting beat.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Dec 4, 2006 19:11:44 GMT -5
Maybe we should look at it from the other direction. Not why Powe and Rondo aren't playing but why other players are playing in their place. Could it be that they are trying to get more interest and build up the trade value of the players they are playing. I read in the Hoopsworld rumors that Denver is very interested in West. Scal had no trade value at the beginning of this season, but now that they are doing articles about how he is a defensive whiz and that he has genius level basketball IQ, possibly other teams may just go for him. Maybe they aren't hiding Rondo and Powe but showcasing Scal and West.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 5, 2006 13:08:39 GMT -5
It is the same pattern of Perkins not playing because Mark Blonut was playing. Now we extended Perkins for a very reasonable contract for bigs. The real litmus test is coming with Gomes and Jefferson getting the starting PF spot.
Scalabrine is getting a showcasing run, I think.
Rondo, I'm not sure why he is getting pidgeonholed. He needs to play now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2006 14:06:20 GMT -5
Sorry but not playing guys becuz you don't want to showcase for trade is kind dumb thing to do. From a management stand point, you are here to win ball-games and if powe, Rondo or Green can help this team win then management should stress to the coach to play these guys. I think the reason they aren't playing becuz maybe they aren't good enough to get quality playing time. Maybe, for once these young kids aren't as good as we think they are.
Something isn't working and right now we're looking at a possiblity of a blow up of our roster. Ainge needs to decide the direction of this team not go half-!!!GREENIAC!!!. Either build around pierce or build around the speed of this team. You aren't going to be a contending team if you cannot decide what this team identity is.
Right now, I'm hoping Doc goes and the possiblty to get rid of Pierce to go with a more fast-break offense. Something is going to happen and i expect many people to lose their jobs.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 6, 2006 8:33:54 GMT -5
I agree with what you are saying JVHOS, but you can't go around constantly blowing things up just for the sake of blowing things up. Change the coach if you must, but the last thing I want to do is take on high priced bums like the Knicks have in the hopes that the chemistry will come around. Trade Pierce for another good player who will not get in the way of your running. (All right trade Pierce, Wally and your #1 for Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson if New Jersey feels like they need to blow up their club, too).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2006 9:51:22 GMT -5
I don't Ainge has exactly "blown everything" up. Basically, he changed role players and added some youth but, he kind backtrack on what he wants to do. Rebuild but try to win at the same time isn't working at all. You have 1 superstar, 1 solid player, and a bunch of young players who play a certain role. These kids aren't allowed to play their game. They have to play the game that put pierce in the right position and it shows when he isn't on the court or when he get triple team. It's like without Pierce they have no clue what to do.
I think the first move for Ainge is to get rid of Doc. Put in a coach who will implement his plan and he's going to stick to it. After that, if its still not working, trade Pierce and try to implement the speed game.
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