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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 1, 2006 2:04:16 GMT -5
At this present course, we will not win a championship any time soon. A course of action must take place in order for us to move beyond our mediocre state and become better than just a playoff caliber team. If we want to become champions in this decade, we must choose one or the other:
A). Trade our young assets for a big time player (also known as the Gold Medal player--ala the top players in the league at their positions) and pair him up with Pierce and give everything to win in this window of opportunity
B). Move Pierce in hopes of winning with our youth and the players we will receive from the Pierce trade (possibly a high draft pick that nets us a superstar in the making--ala Greg Oden, Kevin Durant).
I look at this team as it is currently constructed, and I do see a lot of positives. We have shown to be a lethal offensive team when everyone clicks, and we can play solid enough defense to clamp down on opponents for brief spurts during games. But even if we play hard and overachieve, we still lack the "umph" to be an elite team. In a 7 game series, we won't beat Cleveland, Detroit or Miami. We are undersized at various positions on the court and we can be dominated in the paint at times, as well as beaten on the perimeter.
Its about time we took initiative regarding our future and make the jump either to trade for a player like Iverson, KG, JO, Gasol, etc. by giving up a lot of our young studs (Gerald, Jefferson, Rajon, Telfair, Gomes, Powe, Perk), or we move our most valuable piece, Paul Pierce, in hopes of building around our young studs. The latter route will take longer, but if it pans out, wil give us a dynasty. The former will be focused on winning a championship now, and the window of opportunity decreases year by year.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Dec 1, 2006 9:08:35 GMT -5
all i know is that i don't want the celts to part ways with rondo, green and jefferson and i would prefer to keep pierce, perkins and telfair as well.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 1, 2006 10:47:58 GMT -5
In this thread, BC, you have to pick one or the other. Either stick with Pierce and trade Gerald, Jefferson and some other young players for a guy like Garnett or O'Neal, or you stick with the young guys and trade Pierce away.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 1, 2006 16:34:40 GMT -5
A team with guys like 27 year old GGs and Al Js and Rondos, and Perks, and Gomes, and Wests are more likely to win a championship or even several, than a team with a 29 year old PP as its best or possibly even second best player. I think we should trade PP and Wally for Oden if we can, and if we can't we can get a lot more than just a Durant for them. For example. If we traded with Chalotte we could also get maybe an Okafor. We could get maybe a Bargnani from Toronto. We could get further future picks from teams. We could get a Heinrich from a Chicago especially if we throw in guys like say a Bassy. I want to start over. Not have two overpaid never won anything NBA Dan Marinos
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Post by scooterr68y on Dec 1, 2006 16:46:18 GMT -5
Hi all I have not posted in a long time but I read this site every day. I live in Boston have been to opening night and seen every game on tv so far this year.
Doc has not done the best job and his rotations and game management drive me crazy but the talent is not where it needs to be..lots of potential, but potential doesnt win games.
The only way we would contend this year is to have one of our young players "step up" and be an all star caliber player,it has happened for stretches but not consistantly.Why...many reasons including, youth, and coaching playing time etc... Back to the question on hand.Paul Pierce is a top 10 NBA player.period.one of the most underated in the league.Also one of my favorites.I just don't see us being able to aquire and ALL Star big to compliment Pierce..I read all these trade scenarios on Real Gm and other sites, no GM in their right mind is going to trade an all star big that we need to go with Pierce like KG,Duncan,ONeal,Gasol,Brand or Howard. With that being said we need to Trade Pierce and Allen and whatever fillers to Chicago for the NY Pick,and Deng.
we need to PLAY JEFFERSON,Perk,Rondo or Telafair, and GREEN al least 35 minutes a night. Tank the rest of the year let our guys get some experince. New Line up C -----2007 Draft pick ODEN* or Brandon Wright or Thabeet with our pick and perk as a back up PF-----Al Jefferson/Powe/Scalabrine SF-----Wlly / Durant*with Chicago's pick via NY/Gomes sg-----Greene/West/Ray pg-----Telfair/Rondo There are also other great draft prospects such as Noah/Horford/Splitter etc I would keep Doc through this process and then when we are ready bring in a new coach and we have the makings of a new Dynasty ..this plan takes time but would bring 17,18,and 19!
Thanks for reading Thoughts?
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 1, 2006 18:56:17 GMT -5
Scooter, good to hear from you, guy. I had to do a double take as I was reading your post to make sure that wasn't something I posted. I am on the same page as you on a lot of those points. There's no way we can get a big time big man to play with Pierce without giving up a lot of our stud young players and there's no way we win with just Pierce and a big time big man and a bunch of nobody's. And if we give up our young studs, like Jefferson, Green, Gomes, Perk, Telfair, Rondo, Powe, etc. we will be playing with a bunch of nobody's.
I see the players we have and I'm far more willing to gamble with our young guys than to give them up for a limited opportunity to win a title. Think of it this way--even if we were to have Shaq or Duncan on this team, we will not win a title. We won't have enough supporting players around them--they'll all be gone in the trade to get Shaq or Duncan.
If we gamble and play Jefferson, Gerald, Perk, Telfair, Rondo, and Powe a ton of minutes, we will take a step backwards. But 2 big benefits will result of this; 1) they will develop far more quickly to do damage next season, and 2) we will get a high draft pick in a draft that is top heavy with big potential players.
And in the long run, we will recover from the loss of Pierce because we'll function more as a team and Gerald will emerge to be a competent replacement. There has already been stretches during games where we get along fine without Pierce because more players step up and produce because of his absence.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Dec 1, 2006 19:02:22 GMT -5
If I have to pick one avenue to follow it would be to stick with the kids. Pierce is a talented player but he doesn't seem to fit in with out other young players. I would rather keep Al, Green, West, Telfair, Rondo, Perk, Powe and company and give them the playing time it takes for them to develop. It may take a year for it to pay off but it will pay off. Good post, Scooter. I don't like the idea of tanking. I would still like our kids to play as hard as they could.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 1, 2006 19:59:24 GMT -5
If we traded Pierce and gave Perk, Jefferson, Green, Powe, Rajon, Telfair, Gomes, Allen and Ray all the playing time we could afford to give them, we will lose more games than we'd like, but I would not consider that tanking. Its necessary development for the future.
I also think its the right move.
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Post by scooterr68y on Dec 1, 2006 20:24:54 GMT -5
Thanks Darren
yea I didn't mean intentionaly loose, I would never advocate that in any form,team or level, but with a team as "green" as that we would have a share of loses but gain valuable experience.Look at Golden State with Ellis and Bedrienes getting playing time...I likenthe celtics with Pierce is like Sixers with Iverson and Iguodala..who I think is a terrific player,teams with one star will be competative on any given night but you can't win a championship. As great as we all think Pierce is and as much as we want him to remain a Celtic for life its a hard choice. look at LA, they basically have Kobe and are better than us and also going no where. I like the Celtics more than PP I would love to get KG,JO,Brand etc..but its not happening and Doc has to play to win as much as he can it is his job, which means using TA,West,Scal. We all rather at least develop our young talent if we are going to not win. If GG or Big Al were on the Bobcats or another team getting 36 minutes anight they would be looking pretty good. Gomes and west are PERFECt role players 6th and 7th men on a championship caliber team...we need a solid second and third option of AllStar caliber to go with PP or were forever mediocre By the way this is the most intelligent group of posters compared to realgm,Celtics blog etc Keep up the optomism and the intelligent comments
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Dec 2, 2006 2:30:37 GMT -5
tho only pierce trade i would do is with chicago for deng, thomas and ny's pick. forget everything else. also i would still trade away every half the young guys in the name of development of the other half. so to answer your question derren i would consider dealing paul if my above-mentioned trade is on the table come trade deadline. however i still think that paul is not going anywhere
and needless to say - doc needs to go...
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