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Post by eja117 on Aug 24, 2006 13:53:05 GMT -5
I don't know. What if either Tony or especially GG turn out to be the next big thing? What if one of them turn out to be just a mediocre big thing as big as Jason Richardson or Michael Redd? I feel pretty strongly that between both of them one of them becomes an all-star. Would you rather have an all-star at the beginning of their career or a gold medal guy at the end of his career after a lot of injuries? Plus Ratliff comes off the books in 2 years and GG is cheap the next three years. I know you can't get something for nothing. If it were me I'd wait till at least a few weeks into the regular season and see how these guys are doing. We'll have a much better idea of a fair trade at that point. I kinda just think we can do better too. I think you have to look at who beats out who. Like who does what out of this group Rondo vs Telfair Telfair vs Delonte Allen vs Delonte GG vs Allen AL vs Gomes vs Powe I think we should consider showcasing Powe the way we did with Julian Reed. maybe showcase the loser of Delonte vs Telfair vs Rondo and the loser of GG vs Allen vs Delonte. Make it look like the loser is the winner. Make the winner look like the loser. Dwayne Jones, Ray, and even Pitts can also get in on the act. I'm glad we have those guys cause it could soften the blow of having to trade away a guy like Delonte or Allen
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2006 14:09:05 GMT -5
That's the evil of trading young talent for veteran stars. You know what you're going to get with AI but, you don't have a clue what players like GG might turn out. Then the next question in AInge mind has to be "Would we have a better chance winning a championship w/ AI?" If he doesnt' think AI gets us where we need to be then you got to stay put. To me, losing GG doesn't really bother me as much as giving up Perk and Al because we already have two all-stars at 2-3 spot. Yes, Gerald Green is very young and can out jump probably everyone in the nba but will he better than what we have right now? I think if AInge thought Green will be better than Pierce in couple years I don't think Ainge would've gave Pierce his extension.
I think a combination of Wally-Pierce-AI can compete with the best of them in the NBA. All we would need after that is to have our young big-men to step up as top flight rebounders/defenders and make the best of it when their name is called on the offensive end.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 24, 2006 16:42:28 GMT -5
There's something I don't like about a PP-Wally-AI combo and that is that all three are no spring chickens, all three have some injury issues, all three aren't big men, all three have been associated with not winning or holding thier team back or attitude problems, and all three have big salaries. Maybe that's not totally fair and maybe it can even motivate them, but i defineitely think careful what you wish for.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 25, 2006 2:15:40 GMT -5
There's something I don't like about a PP-Wally-AI combo and that is that all three are no spring chickens, all three have some injury issues, all three aren't big men, all three have been associated with not winning or holding thier team back or attitude problems, and all three have big salaries. Maybe that's not totally fair and maybe it can even motivate them, but i defineitely think careful what you wish for. We would have almost all of our salary cap commited to those three. We would be thin at the 4 and 5, because Im sure Philly would want at least one of our bigs. My opinion on the Iverson trade hasnt changed; Im against it, unless we get him for pennies on the dollar.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 25, 2006 9:27:47 GMT -5
Well our cap is committed right now to PP-Wally-and Theo I guess. Plus you can go over to sign your own bigs I guess. I would suppose most teams' caps are in only a couple guys other that the Knicks who are the evil equal oppositte of the Yankees. They outspend everyone by a lot and still can't buy a win.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2006 23:08:33 GMT -5
I rather pay 50 million for 3 all-stars who'll give my team a legitmate shot at making the playoffs and possibly make a run. Reoather than paying 5-8 mil for 5 average players who won't bite past the 1st round. You act like we'll lose all this cap space if we give up Theo when in reality we still don't have any money to spend in the FA market when his contract expires. If Perk reaches anything close to Dampier type numbers you could see most of the money being spent on Theo going towards Perk's new contract. So, we'll still be a team with 3 large contracts looking for young talent with rookie contracts to take us to the next level.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 27, 2006 11:17:19 GMT -5
I know. I can't believe even with losing Vin Baker's $ and Raef's and in two years Theo and in 3 years Wally, we still won't be beneath the cap. I don't see how it is possible to ever be below the cap. I guess one thing you should never do is pay a guy like Scala anything at all. I mean why sign anyone to a free agent contract that won't be at least a serious starter? I guess that's why DA is saying of our young guys there will be winners and losers. Some of them really will be losers. They'll get low offers and if they don't like it no other team will be able to make offers. I mean would anyone make an offer above 4 years 20mill to Tony Allen? That is a mid level exception type contract. I don't think anyone would offer more.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2006 13:44:35 GMT -5
'07 Grant and Baker contract come off the books (roughly 7.1mil) '08 Theo and Perk come off the books (roughly 14 mil) <---- Roughly 21.1 mil off the books in two years. 08' thru 09' season we'll have roughly 20 million committed to contracts (7 contracts) Perkins and Gomes being the main free agent to resign
09-10' Wally's contract come off teh books. Telfair, West, Allen, and Jefferson will be free agents.
Ok, I was wrong about cap situation being crap even having Theo on this team but, Don't expect to have money to spend when guys like perkins, Gomes, Telfair, Jefferson, and West will be demanding long term deals. In fact, after the 2010 season we might NOT have the money to give Green his long term deal especially if we're able to keep majority of our players.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Aug 28, 2006 4:54:38 GMT -5
there will be a deal this season where some of the elite 8 youngsters will be shipped out. Too many players playing same positions. Last year Reed played the same role as Gomes and Davis basically same role as Pierce. Both of them got shipped out. This season will be the same: Allen and West playing essentially the same position. One of them will go. Gome or Powe - might be the same thing. I'm not surprised if Wally went in some deadline deal.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 28, 2006 8:17:49 GMT -5
Aren't we allowed to go over the cap to sign our own guys? I bet Denver was over and they offered Nene 10mill. We were over this year I think. I don't think being over the cap is so bad. It's having good contracts that are important. I think it would be a good idea to trade away a guy like say Tony Allen to a team near the top of the draft for a far away draft pick and they have to take Scala. That way we rid ourselves of two contracts and get a hopeful future top pick, and help a team out for karma. In the mean time the team might get a short term boost and fall below us in the draft. Maybe Atlanta or Golden State
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2006 11:54:48 GMT -5
Of course you can go over the cap just the owners have to pay the luxury tax on it. I know Wyc has said in the past if they need to spend over the cap they'll spend over the cap but that can change easily if this franchise isn't winning. Why overspend if you aren't winning?
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Post by eja117 on Aug 28, 2006 20:37:25 GMT -5
So almost every team in the league is paying some luxury tax? And then the tax gets redistributed to all teams? Ok. Plus I thought minimum and mid level and low mid level exceptions don't get taxed. hence "exception" so if you signed your own guy to and 8mill deal only 3 mill counts towards the tax right? seeing as how that's 3 mill over the mid level? Then if you signed another guy that would go to the tax minus the lower exception? I don't know. I hate these things and that's why they have capologists. I'm shocked they signed Scala when there is a cap now. Unless it doesn;t count cause of the exception.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 29, 2006 0:04:30 GMT -5
So almost every team in the league is paying some luxury tax? And then the tax gets redistributed to all teams? Ok. Plus I thought minimum and mid level and low mid level exceptions don't get taxed. hence "exception" so if you signed your own guy to and 8mill deal only 3 mill counts towards the tax right? seeing as how that's 3 mill over the mid level? Then if you signed another guy that would go to the tax minus the lower exception? I don't know. I hate these things and that's why they have capologists. I'm shocked they signed Scala when there is a cap now. Unless it doesn;t count cause of the exception. I think the luxery tax is quite a bit higher than the salary cap. This is just a guess, but the salary cap is around 50 mill, while the luxery tax limit is in the high 60s. I think only a handful of teams are paying any significant luxery tax. And I think only the bottom few teams get the luxery tax. The MLE doesnt count against the cap, but it does count against the luxery tax.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Aug 30, 2006 5:12:36 GMT -5
luxury tax is approximately 61 million usd. salary cap is approximately 53 million dollars. teams can sign their own free-agent players to any number they want. midlevel exception and other exceptions are the only ways to sign other players for teams over the cap (for example the knicks signed jared jeffries recently despite the fact that they are a mind-boggling 70 million over the luxury tax treshold)
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 30, 2006 18:44:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the science BC. I didnt know that the salary cap and the luxery tax were that close.
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