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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 21, 2006 13:13:24 GMT -5
Was doing some muzzling over at Celticsblog, and I read this one thread where a poster makes a lot of sense. I didn't read his entire post, but the ideas that ran through my head made me immediately want to post it here before I forget.
1) There was a whole lot of hype about this Iverson trade being nearly a done deal. Most of us were on the edge of our seats every morning, anticipating Iverson packing his bags to come here. Almost every beat writer (even outside of Boston) thought this was a no brainer. But in a blink of an eye, the trade talk dies out and there's nothing but calm waters, blue skies and deafening silence. No more talk on either side. Now, both sides hardly even look at one another, and both claim that the deal is no longer being discussed. Either both guys are telling the truth, or maybe a deal was already agreed upon and now they are just wating for Aug 28th, at which time the players who came over in the Portland deal will be able to be traded away.
Logical sense is that Ainge killed the deal when he traded away the coveted 7th pick in the draft that Philly wanted in order to get Telfair from Portland. But even that seems a bit fishy. Ainge was very optimistic, to the point where it seemed like a guarantee that big moves were going to be made this offseason, making it sound like he was going after a big one. Getting Iverson would have been that whopping catch (though many of us disagree). If he wanted Iverson, why would he kill the deal by doing a 180 and trade for Telfair? I mean, if he wants to hit a grandslam, Iverson would be the knockout punch (in terms of superstar power and impact). Telfair is nowhere the player Iverson is and will ever be.
2) Pierce just signed an extension to be with us for the next 5 years. After wanting to be traded away last summer because of not being happy here, he endures a disappointing 33 win season. And after making comments this summer about wanting to play for a winning team and playing for a championship, he signs an extension to be here for the next 5 years.
Unless Ainge promised him that he was going to bring in player(s) who will help Pierce realize his championship dreams, I highly doubt Pierce would have inked his name on a contract extension. With our youth and inexperience, Pierce wouldn't naively sign on for another term that will run through his prime if he didn't think Ainge was going to put us in a position to be title contenders. I think Ainge promised and reassured him that star players are on their way to Boston.
That's probably why Pierce waited til after signing the extension before getting his surgery on his elbow. He had to make sure where he was going to be next year first before commiting to surgery.
Where Ainge was once highly proactive about bringing in big name players this summer, he is now more on the placid side. This either means that Ainge has given up trying because his efforts are futile, or that something is up his sleeve. Right before he traded Walker away, and later when he traded for Walker, he made similar comments about having no desire to trade him or trade for him.
We hear of him making calls to Indiana for Harrington, and making inquisitive calls to Cleveland about Gooden and Seattle for Wilcox, but they didn't sound at all like possibilities.
We all have dismissed the thought of Iverson wearing Celtics Green next season and our attention has turned elsewhere. But that could be exactly what Danny Ainge and Billy King want. Even the Iverson camp has been relatively quiet. Normally, each summer, we hear of Iverson being rumored to go here, to go there, to go everywhere. But not this summer--all is quiet. Maybe a bit too quiet. I advise all Celtics fans to prepare for a sneak attack. Allen Iverson may indeed be a Celtic before the summer is over.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 21, 2006 13:35:13 GMT -5
when Iverson did an interview wearing a Yankees hat did that change anything or indicate anything? I admit a team with AI and PP would be a team I'd watch a little and would probably at least go to the playoffs. I'd be interested in what our big man situation would be. If they trade something stupid like Perk, Gomes, Delonte, and GG I will boycott for a year. I also don't see what in heck we can get back in the big man department besides Kyle Corver or something aweful. Steve Hunter. Dalembert? Shavlik Randolph? Edin Bavcic? I'm getting the willies just thinking about it.
i suppose expecting to trade away several players may be why DA went over the roster limit and got guys like Allan Ray and Pitts
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 21, 2006 14:19:05 GMT -5
My opinion of Iverson coming to Boston has changed somewhat. At first, I was totally against it. I viewed him as a player we just didn't need, especially if we needed to give up a lot of high ceiling young players.
But since reading the articles on NBADraft in which the author shines light on Gold Medal Players and how teams need the league's top players in order to have a chance at winning a championship, my outlook has softened towards Iverson.
AI has never played with a stacked team. Its possible that he has been a ballhog and a FG% killer all these years because he had to be. He had to carry his team because he had little talent around him. Imagine that team he led to the Finals against Shaq and the Lakers. If you substituted Pierce instead of Iverson on that Philly team, I doubt they make the Finals, or even the Eastern Conference Finals. Maybe getting out of the second round of the playoffs would have been out of the question.
Maybe its possible that if Iverson played on a team with more talent and a legitimate and proven star like Paul Pierce, he won't be a ball hog and he'll take better shots--mainly because he won't have to be a 1-man team anymore. He's been an 8 apg passer for most of his career playing on really bad teams. He's obviously got passing ability and creativity to make things happen for himself and for his teamates. If he plays with a better collection of players who can carry their share of the scoring load, Iverson won't feel the need to take every shot, and he'll be able to ease up on the burden that's on his shoulders.
I've watched numerous All-Star games in which Iverson looked like a totally different player than the cancerous player he is in Philly. He impressed me with his passing ability and his eagerness to share the ball. Of course, he could score when he wanted to, but it wasn't just about the scoring.
I now see that a Pierce and Iverson combination just might be a solid working combination.
Consider also the amount of times he gets to the free throw line every game. He and Pierce each will get to the line nearly 10 times per game. Both guys have annually been atop the league leaders in free throw attempts per game. This is a huge advantage for us because shooting free throws are much higher percentage shots and both guys are around 80% shooters.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 14:34:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind trading for AI if we aren't giving up our young big men (Perk, AL and Gomes).
A 3-some of AI-Pierce-Wally would put up atleast 70-80 pts per game by themselves. So we wouldn't need our big guys to put up all-star numbers every game in order for us to win. They just need to produce when needed and rebound well enough so we can run like mofos.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 21, 2006 14:44:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't want to give up Perk, GG, Gomes, or Rondo, and wouldn't be the happiest guy in the world giving up West either or Telfair (I realize I'm making no sense at this point). I assume Philly would want at least two if not three or four of those guys and for that price I'd tell em where they could stick their future. I just really think Rondo or Telfair can be one of the next Tony Parker/Bibby types in this league, I think GG can be one of the best wings in the league, Perk can be a top 5 center and West and Gomes can be two of the best 6th men the league has ever seen and I don't want to give that kind of stuff up. If Philly wants AL and TA and Allan Ray and Wally I'm ok with that, but i think they'd tell me where I can put that offer. Maybe draft picks can be involved or maybe we can get something back that's nice like a Rodney Carney or something.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 21, 2006 14:53:22 GMT -5
I'm thinking maybe Theo Ratliff and Wally Szczerbiak (possibly a young guy like Delonte West to give them a PG in return) will do the trick. Philly really wants to rid themselves of Iverson and AI is not happy to be in Philly anymore. Its just a wrecked marriage, and we stand to gain from this because no one else seems to want to bid for him.
So far, Theo has not been introduced to the city of Boston and its not looking like they intend to do so anytime in the near future. This isn't normal procedure for a new player a team is counting on to be a factor with the team.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 14:58:42 GMT -5
I'm thinking maybe Theo Ratliff and Wally Szczerbiak (possibly a young guy like Delonte West to give them a PG in return) will do the trick. Philly really wants to rid themselves of Iverson and AI is not happy to be in Philly anymore. Its just a wrecked marriage, and we stand to gain from this because no one else seems to want to bid for him. So far, Theo has not been introduced to the city of Boston and its not looking like they intend to do so anytime in the near future. This isn't normal procedure for a new player a team is counting on to be a factor with the team. If thats the trade, then I'll be onboard. Two players coming off surgeries for a perenial top-10 player in the NBA is a win trade to me. It'll be kind of interesting to see a starting back-court who are both less than 6'3". Starting Line-up: C - Perkins PF - Jefferson/Gomes SF - Pierce SG - AI PG - Telfair
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 21, 2006 15:29:50 GMT -5
Well, that's sort of the starting offer. I am devaluing Iverson too much with that trade package.
Delonte is an inspiration on the team because of the type of player he is. But he has a connection with Philly and they may want him there. Plus, if losing Delonte is the price we need to pay to get a Gold Medal player, it might be the bullet we need to bite.
Now, if Iverson comes here, it doesn't automatically mean we are title contenders. We'll have enormous scoring firepower from the baccourt with Pierce and Iverson, but that's not all it will take to be title contenders. We'll need to be a strong rebounding team, and that means our big men will have to be big time factors in the middle. Like FL12 mentioned in her blog article this morning, everywhere that Clifford Ray has gone, he's made the team into the league's top rebounding teams. Even if they were pitiful the year before, he comes in and changes the attitude and the complection around and gets his team into a rebounding mode. That will also need to happen here.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 21, 2006 15:40:38 GMT -5
I'm thinking maybe Theo Ratliff and Wally Szczerbiak (possibly a young guy like Delonte West to give them a PG in return) will do the trick. Philly really wants to rid themselves of Iverson and AI is not happy to be in Philly anymore. Its just a wrecked marriage, and we stand to gain from this because no one else seems to want to bid for him. So far, Theo has not been introduced to the city of Boston and its not looking like they intend to do so anytime in the near future. This isn't normal procedure for a new player a team is counting on to be a factor with the team. If thats all it would take to get iverson, we wouldve gotten him already. The price for iverson is going to be much higher than a lot of C's fans are willing to pay, at least until the off-season.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 21, 2006 15:46:26 GMT -5
I was looking at the espn trade maker and the Iverson trade is a little weird cause Iverson makes 17 mill and Wally and Theo both make 11 mill and all our young guys make like 1.5 mill, so it's actually kind of hard to match up the math, but luckily they have a few guys making like 3 mill, so it can be done, but it's kind of odd. Plus Derren is right that we need to wait (another evil word) till Aug 28 to see what happens.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 21, 2006 16:04:16 GMT -5
Maybe Theo, Wally and Iverson will be the key players involved in this trade. There's always the possibility of other teams joining in as well.
I just think its too suspicous that everything is quiet and calm all of a sudden, after hearing so much clamoring and cluttering just before the draft. Too many insiders and people in the know saying that the Iverson deal to Boston was going to get done, and now its all quiet. Too many things factor in to make it seem like somthing is just about to happen.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Aug 21, 2006 21:58:37 GMT -5
Meaning to sound innocent, I thought the Iverson trades have long been dismissed in the past. August 28 is coming, though.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 22, 2006 3:23:55 GMT -5
Right, Aug 28th is apparently the magic date in which the players we acquired from Portland are available to be traded away.
I doubt that Telfair will be going, or maybe I'm just hoping that he's not going anywhere. Being that we have yet to see the Celtics organization introduce Theo Ratliff as a member of the team, we may very well see Ratliff head straight for Philly without even unpacking his bags here.
Say that Iverson does come here. I initially thought it would be a terrible idea (and it still could be if Ainge gives up Gerald and/or Jefferson in the deal), but now I'm warming up to the idea.
I was really apprehensive about his attitude and persona, but if there's one thing Doc is good at (we know its not his defensive coaching ability ;D), its his ability to reach and communicate with his players. I can see a nice relationship forming with Doc and Iverson.
Once you get past this stumbling block, seeing Iverson in a Celtics uniform gets easier. Like I mentioned earlier, I think that we'll see a different Iverson when he plays alongside with real basketball talents. He's never played alongside a star wing player of Pierce's caliber.
And can you imagine when Rajon and Iverson play in the same backcourt together? Two extremely quick, long and athletic guys with extremely quick hands on defense that will get us a bunch of steals. Rajon actually resembles Iverson in a lot of ways, aside from the perimeter scoring ability. They both are exceptionally gifted ball handlers and creative playmakers who are just as dangerous taking the ball to the whole and scoring buckets for themselves or getting their teammates involved.
Wow, I can't imagine a quicker backcourt in the NBA than that combination.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Aug 22, 2006 22:16:17 GMT -5
Trading for the Question Mark will cost us Gerald Green, Tony Allen, Ratliffe, and Scalabrine, what the heck let is see if we can get Kyle Korver for Wally Z while we are at it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2006 13:26:58 GMT -5
Thats a steal and a half for AI. Any GM in the league would make the deal if they were teh celtics. How often does teams who give up guys who aren't starters on their team for a top 10 player in the NBA? Not many if any at all.
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