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Post by Celtic17 on Aug 14, 2006 21:54:10 GMT -5
I vote for TA for the wall-of-shame... That's where you were going, right EJA?
lol
Way too so to be painting any of these kids Green or HOF.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 14, 2006 22:06:14 GMT -5
Why? Why is it too early? The Cavs are thinking of it for Lebron? That's why they are thinking championship. If you want one of those you have to envision your players as HOFers. if you can't see it happening then trade them for someone you can. It is that simple. Loser words like "potential" (ahhhhh. ahhh. I die a little every time I hear it). and "development" get in the way of championships. Winner words like "best" win them. The only reason I have hope for this team is cause there are three players on it I think have a shot at being the best at their position some day. Think of it this way. You don't marry someone cause they have potential.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 16, 2006 14:17:01 GMT -5
C17 is right. It is way too soon to call any of these guys HOFers. And the reason Cleveland is talking HOF and championship0 with Lebron is because, well, the have Lebron James. Look at his #s. Watch his performances in the play-offs this year. This guy is a once in a decade player. None of our youngs can even sniff how good he is. Could any of them be as good as James? Possibly(Though I seriously doubt it).
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Post by eja117 on Aug 16, 2006 19:10:40 GMT -5
Fresh are you saying we should try to be the first team ever to win a championship without a HOFer? Do you think this is possible? If none of our players will ever sniff the Lebron or D Wade level how can we win a championship? Luck? Team play and hustle? Jimmy Chitwood and some role players and a short guy who makes a timely underhand freethrow? Notice my point that we either have to think of these guys as potential HOFers or trade for one? Am I wrong? If I am right how should we go about getting a HOFer or how should we breed in our players HOFer values. The reason Bird became a HOFer is he believed he could be one. And talent, but not so much more than GG. And hard work, but not so much more than Perk. I don't think there's any problem at all with putting a lot of pressure on a player or a coach cause championship runs and games have a lot of pressure. Putting pressure on players is how you weed out the potential champions.
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Post by Celtic17 on Aug 16, 2006 22:48:01 GMT -5
One thing EJA. Winning a championship and sustaining a winning program takes team players. It has nothing to do with the HOF. That's what comes in the aftermath. Look at the old Celtic teams that have won. It comes down to team and the best team players have their numbers in the rafters of the Garden. That means more to me than the HOF. Let this squad prove what they can do before we make them heroes. PP is the only one that is close,at this point. He made his chances better by signing with us again. His career-long stint with the C's might make him a shoe-in for the hall. Not to take away from his numbers. Now he can make it in without winning a title.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 17, 2006 3:42:21 GMT -5
Fresh are you saying we should try to be the first team ever to win a championship without a HOFer? Do you think this is possible? If none of our players will ever sniff the Lebron or D Wade level how can we win a championship? Luck? Team play and hustle? Jimmy Chitwood and some role players and a short guy who makes a timely underhand freethrow? Notice my point that we either have to think of these guys as potential HOFers or trade for one? Am I wrong? If I am right how should we go about getting a HOFer or how should we breed in our players HOFer values. The reason Bird became a HOFer is he believed he could be one. And talent, but not so much more than GG. And hard work, but not so much more than Perk. I don't think there's any problem at all with putting a lot of pressure on a player or a coach cause championship runs and games have a lot of pressure. Putting pressure on players is how you weed out the potential champions. Im not saying we shouldnt try to get HOF caliber talent. It usually takes HOF talent to win titles(the 04 Pistons and the 79 Sonics being exceptions). Heck, if Paul Pierce keeps up his current pace, he'd have the numbers to be considered for the hall. What Im saying is that Lebron James is out of this crappin world good. There isnt anyone in our line-up that you can consider close to Lebron James. This guy is a franchise maker.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 18, 2006 9:21:57 GMT -5
C17 I'm not saying any of them are heroes, but we need to find one, ge one, or make one and fast if we are going to win championships.
Fresh you are absolutely right, there is nobody close to Lebron on our team, so how are we going to beat the Cavs for the next 15 years? Team play? PP? Running? It's not going to work that way the exact way it didn't work for anyone who tried to beat Jordan. I don't want Tony Allen to be the next Craig Ehlo cause we didn't have the fortitude to make a trade for someone that can stand up to him. I don't want D Wade and Lebron to be the next Magic and Larry while we sit around saying "oh but Minnesotta wants too much". I want to be the next Bad Boy Pistons crashing the party and telling everyone they weren't invited.
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Post by Celtic17 on Aug 18, 2006 22:49:08 GMT -5
I see what you're saying EJA. I just think it;s a bit premature for this group of players. I know where you are going...
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Post by eja117 on Aug 19, 2006 8:31:17 GMT -5
C17 I think I totally agree that that is premature for this group of players which is why that means it's time to get different players.
Did I really write the word "fortitude" up there? That's a three syllable word. I can't believe I didn't say gut or balls or something.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Aug 20, 2006 2:25:14 GMT -5
C17 I'm not saying any of them are heroes, but we need to find one, ge one, or make one and fast if we are going to win championships. Fresh you are absolutely right, there is nobody close to Lebron on our team, so how are we going to beat the Cavs for the next 15 years? Team play? PP? Running? It's not going to work that way the exact way it didn't work for anyone who tried to beat Jordan. I don't want Tony Allen to be the next Craig Ehlo cause we didn't have the fortitude to make a trade for someone that can stand up to him. I don't want D Wade and Lebron to be the next Magic and Larry while we sit around saying "oh but Minnesotta wants too much". I want to be the next Bad Boy Pistons crashing the party and telling everyone they weren't invited. I hear what youre saying, but wanteing to be great team is one thing, and becoming one is another. What would the point be of giving up all of our talent just to get Garnett. We've seen what Garnett surrounded by mediocre players gets you, and it isnt much. Getting Garnett only works if we can keep Pierce, because we need to have a guy that can get buckets in the clutch, and Garnett, despite all of his atributes, isnt that guy. I'd offer any combonation, of Allen or west, Telfair or Rondo, GGreen, AlJeff, and Salary fodder it takes to et Garnett. Id throw in a couple of 1sts as well. And you know what, I seriously doubt that it'll be enough to get him. Chicago can always dangle lots of young talent plus NY's unprotected #1 pick this year. If Chicago wanted him bad enough, they could offer more than we could. One option we can always consider is tanking. Its a rather unpopular option, and Im not sure if its the right one, but it could def. work. History has shown that Most championship teams are built around one or two really high draft picks, and these next few drafts are gonna be something special.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Aug 20, 2006 8:54:32 GMT -5
It is way too early to start annointing young players for the hall of fame. My guess is Gerald Green will succeed Paul Pierce as our ringleader one day though.
We have to hope Jefferson improves and puts those ankle problems behind him.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 20, 2006 12:36:17 GMT -5
i would agree there might be teams that can offer more than us for garnett, but there might not or maybe they don't want him. I hate hoping for anything, and this is why i kinda like DA. He doesn't listen to the people who say stuff like "Raef is untradeable" or "Blount is untradeable", he jsut goes out and gets it done and both trades helped us.
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