cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Iverson
Jul 17, 2006 20:33:15 GMT -5
Post by cfoo on Jul 17, 2006 20:33:15 GMT -5
Ive been going back and forth on whether or not the C's should or shouldn't go after AI. I've started to sour on the whole thing a bit, because I think the C's would be fine without him, but I was just thinking that having a backcourt of AI, Telfair, Rondo would be so ridiculously quick it would be hard to pass up. Just wondering if you would or wouldn't trade West, Green, and Wally if it landed us AI? I've pretty much ruled out trading Jefferson. I was all for trading Telfair but I've started to warm up to him considering his play in the summer league. And Rondo has impressed as well and I'd like him to stick around too.
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Iverson
Jul 18, 2006 1:05:20 GMT -5
Post by BCHISTORIAN on Jul 18, 2006 1:05:20 GMT -5
no iverson except for scala and ratliff. what? - phila would laugh at this offer? so would we... in other words - didn't think so.
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Iverson
Jul 18, 2006 1:56:26 GMT -5
Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 18, 2006 1:56:26 GMT -5
Nope, I'm perfectly happy if we don't make the trade for him. Sure he'll give us a big time player, but I have a lot of hope in our young players to become special in their own right.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 8:52:17 GMT -5
Post by eja117 on Jul 19, 2006 8:52:17 GMT -5
If DA were willing to trade away the young guys they are asking for this would be a done deal by now. Since AI still isn't on this team DA is playing the waiting game and waiting for the price to come down. It also bought everyone time to check out our young guys in the summer league, and what he learned is he probably doesn't want to trade Rondo now either, Powe can play ok, and AL J took another step closer to bust, GG is still a bit of a ball hog, Telfaire can get the job done, nobody knows anything about Dwayne Jones.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 10:50:07 GMT -5
Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 19, 2006 10:50:07 GMT -5
Bust? Al Jefferson did not show he's a step closer to being a bust in the summer league. If anything, he showed he's the same player he was last year, but certainly not a regression.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 13:12:41 GMT -5
Post by eja117 on Jul 19, 2006 13:12:41 GMT -5
Bust in the sense that originally he was thought to maybe be a great all-star type guy. A while ago someone here (don't remember who) said that if he had come out in this draft he could have maybe been the #1 pick or so, which is highly possible. When the #1 pick shows he isn't likely to be an all star (he did nothing in this summer league to show that) and may not ever even be a good starter, and was outplayed (again) by a 2nd round pick, that is pretty much bust. It's not bust compared to being the 15th pick. Usually the 15th pick becomes a decent starter or a good backup but not usually an all star and that's about what he is on track to be. Basically both Gomes and AL J are showing they were worthy of being the 15th pick, but cause one was a high schooler with lots of the p word and the other was totally underrated one is being called a bust, and the other is being called a steal. Seriously guys. There is absolutely nothing AL J has done since last summer league to show he will ever be more than a starter and tons he has done to show he won't. Gomes has consistently outplayed him again and again and again. Every single great high schooler except McGrady and O'Neal showed FAR more promise than Perk, Al, or Telfair. These guys might become good, but it won't be a surprize if none of them become all-stars. Gomes doesn't have p word. he has the good p word as in PROOF. We KNOW he will good during his career. Stop holding college against him. College was held against Battier who became better than ALL the high schoolers picked that year. MAYBE this is FINALLY the year ONE of them surpass him. In fact I'd rather have several of them than him cause they are big men, but Gomes is capable of playing the same position as AL J. If Al J were a sf or a sf/pf instead of a pf or pf/c we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would be obvious by now. This is why we are all so high on GG. Derren and I both think GG can be better than all the high schoolers on the team because he actually has shown some greatness possibility, and all he needs to do is show it again this year, which is not what AL J did. Here is how GG can be considered on the road to stardom this year. Make all his stats go up Play defense Don't get hurt If you get hurt don't take forever to heal from something small Be really agressive and not wimpy and hustle really hard and act like you love basketball like it is your child and you'd kill your own mother to protect the Celtics. Dominate in summer leagues and such
Here is how he can start to have the word BUST applied to him Get artificial breasts (get it?) Do the opposite of the things above.
Ok, now which did Al J do last year?
I'll admit Al j didn't show regression in this summer league, but he didn't show must aggression either except that one hustle play to get the ball. I'm sorry but when you dive on the floor to get a ball and it ends up in the paper like nobody expected it that is a problem.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 15:26:29 GMT -5
Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 19, 2006 15:26:29 GMT -5
Admitedly, he didn't dominate like we would have hoped. But its hard to do when the ball doesn't get thrown into the post.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 16:18:58 GMT -5
Post by eja117 on Jul 19, 2006 16:18:58 GMT -5
Ok fair enough. i don't know the stats of his shooting percentage or what exactly was happening, but I just would have thought that with all this time to heal and all that tutoring from Clifford Ray he would have been one of the top big men there, but it didn't seem that way. I don't know how much they passed to him or what. With more opportunities i'm sure he would have done better and GG is sort of a ball hog, and I'm honestly starting to think maybe Gomes is to. Maybe that's something we'll have to deal with as these guys get more confident and more competitive, which is why some people were so happy to have PGs that pass and Wally last year who passes and why Doc was saying GG needs to learn to play without the ball, which is something D West has done and why he wasn't at the summer league. We basically already have a black hole named PP, so it's tough to say if we need another. This is why if it were up to me the guys I'd be willing to trade first (besides the obvious like Scala) are the nonpassers with no excuse and guys that can't play without the ball, like Al J, Sebastian T (as opposed to D West), and Tony A. next would be expensive or non passers like PP and Theo and Wally. This is why I like Perk. So much of what he does is unslefish hustle dirty work. I used to think that about Gomes, but now that I am thinking this way I may need to reconsider a little. There's nothing wrong with outplaying and outhustling Al J with better shooting % and rebound and assist stats, but there is something wrong with outselfishing him, which is how I feel about Kobe and AI as opposed to Lebron.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 16:48:08 GMT -5
Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 19, 2006 16:48:08 GMT -5
Eja, don't judge by the stats he put up. He shot the ball well, showed excellent quickness (which tells me his ankle is almost 100%), and was giving a good effort. The ball just didn't go to him in the post. Most of the time, Jefferson would receive the ball in the high post, wait for a guy to come off a screen, then make his way down to the post to receive a pass. But unfortunately, the ball didn't go to him. Guys like Gomes would instead take midrange shots. Actually, it seemed that the best way to get scoring opportunities was to get the ball 12 - 15 feet out and take midrange jumpers. That's how Jefferson was able to convert a couple baskets. One was a baseline jumper and the other was a jumper from about 18 feet. He looked really good shooting his jumpers. He got up pretty high in the air, and his mechanics looked really good. He's got a jumper that he hasn't used in actual games, which is probably due to Doc not wanting him to rely on jumpers.
Give him set plays in the post and give him 15 attempts at the basket and he'll be fine. He'll put up stats that will even impress you.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 16:56:57 GMT -5
Post by ferbo on Jul 19, 2006 16:56:57 GMT -5
Summer league team composed of lots of strangers isn't ideal time to evaluate teamwork.
My guess is that there was a priority list of what DA/Doc wanted to see happen, involving ceretain players doing certain things. AJ may have had a small list of things they wanted to see.
I'm guessing that the top priorities were Rondo and Tellfair---defense and ball movement. GG---defense and moving for better shot selection. Etc
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 17:55:20 GMT -5
Post by eja117 on Jul 19, 2006 17:55:20 GMT -5
I admit it's possible that Gomes just isn't passing to Al, but it partly doesn't make sense that they would want to minimize him during serious trade talks unless they want other teams to not want him and want Gomes more...oh my God. Fudge. Yes, I just figured that out now. Dammit I am stupid. I still like Gomes more.
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Iverson
Jul 19, 2006 18:09:19 GMT -5
Post by FLCeltsFan on Jul 19, 2006 18:09:19 GMT -5
I remember two times in the Raptors game where the announcers said that Al was under the basket calling for the ball. One time Telfair took the shot himself and the other time he passed out to one of the players on the wing. Al was establishing position but he wasn't getting the ball in the post.
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