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Post by FLCeltsFan on May 24, 2006 15:35:01 GMT -5
We are picking at lucky number 7. I have been doing some research into which players have been picked at number 7 over the years. This year's draft doesn't have a top one or two as in some drafts and I would say that the top 7 or 8 players may be on even footing. All have positives and all have negatives and depending on a team's need they will find a good player choosing anywhere in there.
Here are some of the past #7s
2005 - Charlie Villeneuva - Toronto 2004 - Luol Deng - Chicago 2003 - Kirk Hinrich - Chicago 2002 - Nene - Denver 2001 - Eddie Griffin - Houston 2000 - Chris Mihm - Chicago 1999 - Rip Hamilton - Washington 1998 - Jason Williams - Sacramento 1997 - Tim Thomas - New Jersey (weak draft) 1996 - Lo Wright - LA Clippers 1995 - Damon Stoudamire - Toronto 1994 - Lamond Murray - LA Clippers 1993 - Bobby Hurley - Sacramento 1992 - Walt Williams - Sacramento 1991 - Luc Longley - Minnesota 1990 - Lionel Simmons - Sacramento 1989 - George McCloud - Indiana
Over the years there have been some good picks at #7
This year's draft has several players, any one of which could be the 1 pick and any one of which could drop to us at 7 depending on how the workouts and predraft camps go and the team needs.
1. Tyrus Thomas 2. Andrea Bargnani 3. Rudy Gay 4. Adam Morrison 5. LaMarcus Aldridge 6. Brandon Roy 7. Marcus Williams 8. Patrick O'Bryant 9. Sheldon Williams 10. Tiago Splitter
One of the above players will drop to us and in my opinion all will be good NBA players and can come in and help right away. Add to the above, Randy Foye, Mardy Collins, and Rajon Rondo, all of which have been on the draft boards as high as #7.
Going farther into the past: The 8-10 picks are also interesting because some of those players have proven to be very good and given Danny's prowess in the draft, need to be considered.
2004 Araujo, Igoudala, Luke Jackson 2003 TJ Ford, Sweetney, Hayes 2002 Chris Wilcox, Amare Stoudamire, Caron Butler 2001 Sagana Diop, Rodney White, Joe Johnson 2000 Jamal Crawford, Joel Przybilla, Keyon Dooling 1999 Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry 1998 Larry Hughes, Dirk Nowitski, Paul Pierce 1997 Adonal Foyle, Tracy McGracy, Danny Fortson 1996 Kerry Kittles, Samaki Walker, Erick Dampier
As you can see from this there were some very good players chosen between the 7th and 10th picks. In most cases, it took a couple of years for those players to come into their own and contribute or even become stars in the league.
Also keep in mind that there have been some later picks who have become stars and very good players including
Tayshun Prince (23), Carlos Boozer (35), Richard Jefferson (13), Zach Randolph (19), Tony Parker (28), Gilbert Arenas (31), Jamaal Magloire (19), Michael Redd (43), Corey Maggette (13), Ron Artest (16), James Posey (18), Jeff Foster (21), Andrei Kirilenko (24), Bonzi Wells (11), Ricky Davis (21), Al Harrington (25), Nazr Mohammed (29), Cuttino Mobley (41), Austin Croshere (12), Brevin Knight (16).
Danny has found some very good talent picking 15 - 50 in the draft and so we have to believe that this year will be no different. Judging by the above names and statistics, we can hope for a player who will come in and help us right away and become a very good player in the league.
Add all this to the fact that if Al, Perk and Gerald had gone to college and come out this year, I would hazard a guess that they would all be top 10 picks.
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Post by eja117 on May 24, 2006 16:50:51 GMT -5
A bunch of those guys were dogs too. Thank God DA hasn't drafted a dog yet, unless you count maybe OG or Al J or TA, but I'd say that is a little harsh. Those guys are more like mediocre, fragile and timid, getting better after a stupid and injury filled year.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on May 24, 2006 16:59:20 GMT -5
Terrific analysis, FL12. No doubt that we can pick up a pretty good player with the 7th pick. Ainge seems to think so, and I'm pretty sure he can still get a fine player later in the round if we moved down in the draft.
But I'm curious to know which player(s) Ainge really covets in the top 5. He eluded to possibly moving up in the draft to get a really high pick. If I'm reading between the lines, he's saying that there's someone in the top 5 whom he really thinks highly of and he'd be interested in moving up to get him if the price is right. This is interesting because its not like there's any consenses top player in this draft who'll be a big impa9"t player. But Ainge seems to think that there's someone in the top 5 who could be worth moving up for.
Does he think that LaMarcus Aldridge is a guy who can move past Perk, making him worth moving up for?
Does he think that Tyrus Thomas can play Center at 6'9"? I highly doubt Tyrus moves beyond Big Al.
Does Andrea Bargnani intrigue Ainge with his perimeter game as a 6'10" ? Does Ainge envision a future dynamite SF/SG combo of Bargnani and Gerald Green?
Does Ainge think highly of Adam Morrison because of his intense competitiveness and will to win? Does he remind Ainge of a mini Bird?
Does Ainge want to grab Rudy Gay? Is he enamored with his versatile game and smoothness?
If Ainge wants to move up in the draft, he must have one of these 5 guys in mind. I'm not sold on Aldridge and I don't really see a spot for Tyrus Thomas with Jefferson here. Bargnani could be the guy Ainge wants, moreso than Rudy Gay. But all in all, if I had to take an educated guess, I'd say that Adam Morrison is Ainge's top pick. His fiestiness and determination to win probably reminds Ainge of himself in his younger days as a scrappy young lad.
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Post by eja117 on May 25, 2006 14:19:05 GMT -5
In looking at the division standings it looks to me like the two teams set up for big success in about 3-4 years are the Celts with all their youth and Cleveland with Lebron. In the next 3-4 years the following players will either retire or be significantly past their prime. Keep in mind Duncan, Van Horn, and Billups were drafted nearly 10 years ago.
Jason Kidd Vince Carter Pierce Shaq Antoine Walker Ben Wallace Billups Rasheed Wallace Gary Payton (already a shell of former self) Michael Redd Larry Hughes Ilgauskas Antoine Jamison Peja Stojackovic Almost the whole roster of the Pacers (Croshere, Foster, S Jackson, Anthony Johnson) Iverson Webber Jamal Magloire Joe Smith jalen Rose Starburry Maurice taylor Tony Battie Hedo Turkoglu Grant Hill Tyronne Lue Wally Szerbiak Raef (there is a God) Al Harrington Brandon Haywood (will be 31) Caron Butler (will be 30) Primoz Brezec Andres Nacioni (will be 31)
These are the players standing in the way of us. All these players will need to be replaced basically by young talent. We already have young talent. Gerald Green is like 19. So in 10 years he'll be 29.
The teams positioned to be ok in 4 years are us Toronto (Bosh, Villaneuva, Alridge?, Joey Graham) Atlanta with all those young forwards Possibly Milwakee with Bogut and TJ Ford New Jersey with Nenad Krstic and Antoine Wright and they have two late firsts in this draft Charlotte (Felton, Okafor, May, Gerald Wallace, 3rd pick this year) Cleveland (Lebron and whoever) Orlando (Jameer Nelson, Dwight Howard, 11th pick in this draft) Chicago (B Gordon, Heinrich, Sweetney, Chandler, Duhon, Loul Deng, #2 and #16 pick this year)
Seeing as how we have youth and potential at every position and the 7th pick and future picks we have a real good shot at the future, but the future is further away than people thought. Al Jefferson just turned 21. So Perk is 22 and Green is 19. We still have two years of hard times ahead. You can't expect Al jefferson to be better than say Rasheed Wallace for 2 years. You can't expect Delonte to be better than Kidd for two years.
Basically in two years we could kinda be where Chicago is now. They went for youth with 2 high schoolers and they picked a freshman (Deng). They then got tired of waiting years for them and decided to go for some college kids (duhon, Gordon).
This is why I like college kids. They bring out the best in high school kids. Anyone notice how Al J got beat around in the summer league and then was out of shape and injury prone? Then all of a sudden he is working like a beast with Clifford Ray. You don't think Gomes had anything to do with that?
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Post by FLCeltsFan on May 25, 2006 14:42:25 GMT -5
Chicago is the team that scares me. They have a lot of good young players that are beginning to mesh. They are going to get even better with the 2nd pick in the draft which I see as being either Bargnani or Aldridge, either of which can come in and help right away. They are going to give us a run for our money along with Cleveland for the forseeable future.
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Post by esco33 on May 25, 2006 15:21:05 GMT -5
Regarding DM's comments about who Ainge would want in the top 5, I say it would be Tyrus Thomas because he is what we sorely lack and need, an inside dominating presence on the defensive end, something that other than Perk we do not have.
He has as much potential as anyone else in the draft and wasn't DM saying that he saw Big Al as a future center a few months back? I don't, but maybe the Celts think so, with him and Perk splitting time at the 5.
Clifford Ray was a 6'9" center and now he is tutoring none other than Big Al. What should we make of that?
Maybe if Ainge can sneak into the top 5 he could envision a combo of Perk and Al at center and Tyrus and Gomes/Raef at the 4.
I would rather stand pat and draft Foye. But this could be something to speculate about.
Also, I agree with Fl. Chicago probably has the best culmination of young budding talent all on one team other than any other team in the league. They are STACKED with future star players.
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Post by eja117 on May 25, 2006 15:28:23 GMT -5
I just honestly don't think Heinrich, Gordon, Duhon, Sweetney, and Chandler are that good. Deng maybe. The #2 pick maybe. They just seem like a slower less good version of the Celts. Nothing wrong with them. I just am happier with the Celts. I don't see tons of explosivness there
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2006 15:57:53 GMT -5
I just honestly don't think Heinrich, Gordon, Duhon, Sweetney, and Chandler are that good. Deng maybe. The #2 pick maybe. They just seem like a slower less good version of the Celts. Nothing wrong with them. I just am happier with the Celts. I don't see tons of explosivness there Agreed. I see a bunch of good players on a team with no superstar to lead them out of the first round. They don't have anyone on the team that can score 20 pts per game on a consistent basis. Yes, Gordon can shoot up a storm but he ain't a superstar that Chicago needs. They're better off packaging their young players to land a superstar like KG or Jermaine Oneal. Like you said, Celtics are kind of in the same boat as Chicago except we have two players who've been to the all-star game (Pierce and Wally). We just don't have a consistent starting lineup to go with every night which makes it hard to have team unity. Just keep the team together and upgrade what we already have currently on the team. No need to push for a blockbuster trade. We have good players we just don't have a consistent lineup.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on May 25, 2006 17:11:09 GMT -5
Chicago is a good team without a superstar. They are young and have a lot of good pieces. But they lack that star player. Deng, Nocioni, Sweetney, Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon, and Chandler are good quality players.
Esco, yep, I did say a while ago that I can see Al moving to Center (at that time I was looking at Gomes being a starting PF) But now I'm starting to see we'll be too undersized with a 6'8" PF and a 6'10" Center. We'll be mismatched every night.
But if we're looking to put Tyrus Thomas at PF and Jefferson at Center, that may work. But I can honestly say that I don't feel good about that lineup.
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Post by ferbo on May 25, 2006 20:14:25 GMT -5
I think Chicago is quicker than some of you. Saw several of the C games against them. Waht I remember is a weave with different guys blowing past defenders and shooting layups.
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Post by Celtic17 on May 25, 2006 23:09:21 GMT -5
Great to see you Ferbo! ! !
That's all I want to say.
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on May 26, 2006 0:57:24 GMT -5
hinrich is their catalyst. without him they are very ordinary. but they still need superstar like everybody here says. for time being they are better than our youngsters. al and gerald have way higher ceilings though
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Post by eja117 on May 26, 2006 12:00:38 GMT -5
I see what you mean ferbo, but I kinda think that's cause the Cs are young and still can play down to the level of competition, whereas they can also speed up to the level of competition in a way I don't think the Bulls do.
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Post by ferbo on May 26, 2006 14:52:22 GMT -5
could be, although the Chicago guys doing the damage aren't much older if any than the C guys.
In all of the talk about PGs, I wouldn't be too quick to write off orien Greene. As I recall, he is thought to be one of the Cs better perimeter defenders.
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Post by eja117 on May 26, 2006 15:07:30 GMT -5
It's close. The Bulls basically started their building in 2001 with Tyson Chandler and Curry. That was the year of Forte and Kedrick Brown. We didn't start our current phase of building till 2003 when Perk and Banks were picked. That was the same year as Heinrich, but he was a senior, whereas Delonte was drafted the next year as a junior so Heinrich is two years older than West with an extra year of NBA and an extra year of Kansas experience. It makes a diff. Sweeney was also picked in 2003 as a junior whereas Al j was picked the next year out of high school. That's 3 years of Georgetown and 1 NBA more of experience. Nocioni is also older and Ben Gordon clearly has more experience than Gerald Green. In general they are two to three years ahead of our youth.
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