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Post by cf0022 on Jan 30, 2022 19:33:39 GMT -5
I know fantasy stats aren't anything but as far as player ratings go Tatum has been better. This is the whole Mahomes vs Burrow thing all over again too. Burrow is going to the superbowl. Maholmes was all the rage and has lost to Tom BRady and now Burrow. Tatum also still has lots of room for improvement where Doncic has maxed his potential as an individual talent. How they play within the system can change etc. DOncic is struggling right now himself with his efficiency since he's the only guy in Dallas. But he needs to be that too. He really isn't. Dallas has players and is improving but Doncic is the guy there. Whether DOncic will ever play the way there that Tatum can play here is the debate. So far Tatum has been better the past two years and if they keep playing how they are I don't see why that wouldn't continue. Tatum is shooting well over 50 percent and scoring over 30 ppg in the last 2 weeks.
Who would you rather have going forward? As an individual talent I still take Doncic but I really don't think he will play like Tatum does in our system. I used to say Doncic but I'm pretty much Tatum all day right now. Doncic has a certain clutch factor to him. But i watched him push off against us and hit a game winning shot and I started to think it was a mirage.
Doncic is basically the new Mahomes whereas other teams are getting it done. Burrow is what you want. He is it. Tatum is Joe Burrow.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 30, 2022 19:45:15 GMT -5
I'd take Doncic. Playmaker who gets the whole team involved with very crafty scoring moves that remind me of Pierce and Ginobili.
Plus the Mavs have a better record than the Celtics despite Porzingis being less of a 2nd best player than Brown is to Tatum which kinda tells me that Doncic is doing a better job carrying his team.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 30, 2022 19:49:07 GMT -5
Without looking, I'd guess Doncic has the higher usage rating. He does a fairly good job quarterbacking the team.
I wonder how Tatum would compare if he had to be the team's QB? Maybe not as good as Doncic.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 30, 2022 19:50:41 GMT -5
BUt that's the thing is Burrow spreads it around more too. So does Tom BRady. Why Mahomes is losing. Statistically it may seem like Mahomes is spreading it around more but he's also running and doing all these things that can be a detriment.
Burrow and Brady are like that sweet spot. I dont think Burrow is as good as Brady. I th ink Brady is the greatest to do it. But burrow is like that sweet spot nonetheless at a lesser level. He's like Joe Namath to Joe Montana.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 30, 2022 20:00:21 GMT -5
I'm not getting the comparisons between Burrow, Brady and how it relates to Doncic and Tatum? If we're saying spreading it around is better then wouldn't that mean Doncic is the better option?
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 30, 2022 20:04:22 GMT -5
It's how they play ultimately. Usage rates are misleading. IF the team is spreading it around more it's better. Tom BRady basically does that as a QB. He executes well. Mahomes is more like DOncic where he needs usage. And it can take away from the team. I think Tatum can do more with less usage in other words. Same with Brady and Burrow. It's not necessarily just efficiency either. It is when they are humming for sure. But it's mroe than that. It's how they play. It's how the team plays and moves the ball when it comes to the celtics.
With DOncic and Dallas they might not do that as well. Just look at the Dallas Cowboys. All the talent in the world but until they actually really get it and play a certain style they are a first round exit.
I think Tatum can do more with less in other words. Tom Brady can do more with less. Mahomes needs more and it doesn't always end up well that way.
If the Celtics play a certain style and move the ball Tatum can do more with less. Passing stats are overrated that way. Sometimes players ball hog to get those stats. It's how the team plays.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 30, 2022 20:07:48 GMT -5
Doncic usage is higher. Tatum is doing more with less. I'm guessing Mahomes to Brady is similar.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 30, 2022 22:28:33 GMT -5
Tatum has a usage rate of 32.2 Doncic is at 35.7 (which is actually his lowest since his rookie season).
I do expect Tatum to have a lower usage to Doncic because he and Brown have that 'my-turn, your-turn' iso possession going..whereas Doncic is the engine on each and every possession.
Doncic's usage rate (35+) is comparable to guys like Giannis and Lebron who are both over 35 usage rate this season. So his is typically of a team that relies on a primary playmaker to lead and create for others.
But I still don't see the Brady comparisons. If Tatum can do more with less, then why are the Celtics worse than the Mavs? And why do the Celtics keep crashing in the 2nd half of games? To me, doing more with less is like Nikola Jokic. All his All-Star teammates (Murray, MPJ) are injured and hes carrying the team alone and winning (28-21 record).
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 31, 2022 1:17:59 GMT -5
I'd take Doncic over Tatum, but it does concern me that Doncic looks like he's gonna be mediocre at best on defense. one thing i love about tatum (and brown) is that they are two-way wings.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 31, 2022 1:20:58 GMT -5
Tatum is [HASH]7 in fantasy so far. Ahead of Durant and Doncic which I figured. Durant is has a better average rank but rests and doesn't play as many games. Tatum is still not on that level game to game. But when team play comes into play it doesn't matter. Tatum was the [HASH]1 player last week. The team was elevated.
Doncic's efficiency takes a hit and his total and average rank do as well. It comes down to how the team plays like i said 1-12. They play well Tatum is elevated. Doncic may be the same way but he needs the ball more to get his "numbers".
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 31, 2022 1:34:41 GMT -5
In other words there is less of an incentive for the rest of the team to play better with Doncic. You get better team play with Tatum and other players playing better than they would with Doncic and Tatum ends up elevated.
Joe Burrow to Mahomes is basically the same thing. You get the rest of the team playing better with Burrow than you do with Mahomes. It's a team game. Burrow wins.
If this were chess Tatum and Doncic would be kings. If you have better team play around them Tatum is a better player and he allows for that because the chess master is smarter.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 31, 2022 1:44:43 GMT -5
Durant is different to me. He needs great players around him to succeed and he needs the ball but he is extremely efficient and can score from all over the floor and defend. LIke I said Durant is probably better game to game but he doesn't play as much and he needs to be surrounded by top tier players. His team might not be able to elevate itself around Durant as much as Tatum.
Guys like Chamberlain are different than Bill Russell that way. Durant is a different breed. He still fits into that Kobe, Chamberlain, Jordan type player. Tatum is something else and fits what I want in a player. Especially if you value team play. I'm not saying those other guys can't do it. But they are so huge they dominate the ball more. THe Nets are basically Kyrie, Durant and Harden and whatever else they can throw at you. That's beatable imo. I value team play more. It's hard to do in todays nba. But you need certain kinds of players.
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Post by jrmzt on Jan 31, 2022 4:48:33 GMT -5
Hmm well I've watched quite a few Cs games this season and I'm not really seeing team play. I guess I'll have to wait and see...
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