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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 3:45:18 GMT -5
I still don't buy that we are just trading everyone but Tatum and Williams plus rookies just to clear cap. This is the free agent list. www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/That's a lot of players but a lot of players we'd want to target were already had the last couple offseasons. Because of Jaylen, Tatum and Williams contracts we also wouldn't have room to add 2 max players. We might be able to get to the point where we can basically spend on 2 Marcus Smart type deals. And get a max player via free agency or trade or vice versa. A lot of those players have bird rights associated with them as well. I don't necessarily see Ayton moving to us suddenly. Nor do we need a center. We need a 4 who can shoot and defend and score in a variety of ways. We have Tatum as it stands but . Miles Bridges is there too but again he's pretty young. There are a ton of players on that list. There's Beal obviously and he may actually want to come here. I still think you try to make trades or clear cap to sign someone and I don't think that necessarily means we move Marcus or Jaylen. If we do it mean we are upgrading those spots somehow and that is going to take a combination of things.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 3:47:38 GMT -5
If you look at the 4's on that list it's still early but there aren't many guys I'd say are budding all stars. Bagley is still young and got a ton of hype but does not do it for me. We would basically need a PF, PG and a scorer if we are dumping Smart, Jaylen, HOrford and Schroder. Really good ones due to break out. I think there is very little chance of that happening.
We would basically have spent our money and be stuck the same way but worse off.
Players due to break out are going to cost 4 years 70 mil. They are going to want 15 million a year which increases each year. Like Smarts deal pretty much. There are other players we will be able to get cheaper. We can spread it around to 4 guys. But we are basically then looking at 2 year 20 million dollar deals. Or 4 years 40 mil etc, etc and we are counting on getting lucky somewhere.
There are a lot of names on that list. As far as real upside and players that will become stars and potential all stars that list is much shorter. I see a lot of potential there and good players though. Better than Marcus and Jaylen? I don't know.
The point is if we are going to trade Marcus Smart or Jaylen we are going to be getting something in return. Not just cap space. On Smart that is somewhat debatable if we are landing Beal and a good pg in free agency or something but again we'd have to find a team to unload Smart, Horford and Shroder too and we should be getting something in return there anyways plus cap space. Whether GM's will do that i don't know unless a 3rd team is involved etc. Like a 2 for one. Not just cap space.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 4:09:35 GMT -5
POint is even if we unload Smart, Horford and Shroder for pure cap space the cap is due to be 120 million if I add up the rest of our contracts we are still at 100 million. I just added it up. So we would need to maneuver even more than that. That's just Tatum, Jaylen Robert Williams and our rookies plus Jrich. That basically gives us 20 mil to spend and sign someone to a marcus smart type deal. IT's probably more than that with the tax line and everything. But we more than likely need to be getting something back if we trade. Smart is somewhat debatable but not really. Jaylen we absolutely have to be getting something back unless we are getting Beal somehow.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 4:12:55 GMT -5
We would basically be losing money because we wouldn't have the tax line we are paying to now. We want to keep that extra 30 million otherwise we lose it. The cap next year goes from 112 to 120 million. The tax line is currently like 130 something due to go to 140 something. We want to be able to take a player back in a trade is the point or we lose all that. We don't gain as much money as it seems by just dumping players for crap players or crap contracts. We want something good. The whole reason it is set up that way is so teams are competitive and to prevent from what you are saying from happening.
it's basically a hard cap which you can spend on free agents. Then the soft cap or reverse i don't know which but what you can pay your own players and pay up to the tax line. Then the luxury tax. It's basically to prevent exactly what you are talking about and so teams remain competitive.
IF we trade Smart we are going to be getting back something good in return whether it's someone like Markkanen plus cap space or a 3rd team is going to be involved where we get a pg as well. I just don't think the celtics want to trade Marcus right this second. And teams aren't going to lineup just for Horford and Schroder either to give us something good. We may need to deal Marcus but again we are going to be getting back something more than likely. Smart is somewhat debateable. Jaylen is not.
Dealing all 3 would basically give us 20 million and smarts contract to spend vs Having Smart and Horford and Shroder this year and Smart and Horford next year. That doesn't really work. I'm sure there are ways we can maneuver under that but again. It's debateable and questionable.
We are better off in ways keeping that tax line and the soft cap and dealing Horford adn Shroder and picks for a good player than trading Smart as it stands. But again it depends. we can deal all 3 and get space and a good player. Or 2 good players. We should be getting back a good player really if we deal Smart. We absolutely should be getting someone good if we deal Jaylen and it's debateable if it's an all star but probably should be whether it's through cap space or whatever.
We are going to be at the cap to sign free agents regardless. Trading Horford and Shroder doesn't really give us a lot of room. IT gives us some. We have to be getting back something good regardless. Unless we just clean house and those free agents don't really cut it. We could trade Jaylen, Smart, Horford, Shroder then we have like 50 million to spend. But why? There has to be some reason for it. Whether it's beal or whatever. If we can get 3 budding allstars somehow through free agency great. But again there has to be some reason for it. Or we aren't really upgrading.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 4:40:14 GMT -5
YOu say these things like i would just trade Jaylen and Smart and Horford and Shcroder for cap space and keep tatum and williams and guys on rookie deals. But do you realize what you are saying?
We are the Boston Celtics. We aren't a small market team. You are basically throwing 30 million dollars of the soft cap out the window. Which is a max player or two really good ones. Or one good one for that matter.
We gain nothing that way. ANd you are trading half our team.
Yeah it's good so we can extend the guys we sign etc, etc and then go over the cap again to do that. But it's not how the Celtics do things. Yes there is some mismanagement on this team as it stands. Ainge signed Kemba and these guys to max deals to put us over the cap and we could have done better maybe. But it's not how the Celtics operate.
We do not want to throw away that extra 30 million we have is the point. We have to be getting back something good. Or contracts to extend that if we can't. Why Horford is signed for an extra year anyways.
I don't know how trade exceptions work but it's related and again it does not give you cap space. You get a trade exception where you have to make trades and it's usually the amount of money you can take back in relation to the cap or whatever you had before. SO we might not lose all of that but you have to make trades and they expire. It doesn't equal cap space.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 29, 2022 6:37:41 GMT -5
I get you think we just go under the cap we get a max free agent and all well and good but that's not how the celtics do things. We basically as it is and how money is structured tands Tatum, Williams, Smart, Jaylen, Jrich and the rookie deals we have basically equal the cap line. Horford, Shroder basically are over the soft cap and to the luxury tax. They are basically a max player themselves without being under the cap. The Celtics typically will spend over the soft cap because they aren't a small market team and it's so teams are competitive.
Otherwise you are going under the cap to sign a player and throwing that 30 million away. The Celtics do not want to do that. They are trying to avoid that at all costs.
It's basically 30 million under or 30 million over regardless. There are ways we can maneuver that where we get a player and also get under the cap somehow but again that would need to be done through trade exceptions or something like that where we get under the cap and also pick up trade exceptions somehow which I'm not sure that can be done. It usually is the other way around if I'm not mistaken. I don't know how trade exceptions work overly but that would make sense. Either way we need to be getting good players back in a trade if we deal good players more than likely.
If we deal Horford and Shroder for example it's possible we pick up a trade exception and also get under the cap. I could be wrong there.
Also as far as free agents available. Most teams own bird rights. We have to outbid teams. So 4 years 80 million for someone halfway decent with upside is pretty standard. you can get lucky and find someone for half that but trying to get under the cap to make any leeway is not a first option. IT's the last option.
We want good players back that teams don't want to pay in other words. So teams that are looking to get under the cap or simply can't afford a player and wants to pay someone else, would deal us a good player for our Horford and Schroder. We aren't looking to get under the cap as it stands. We are looking for good players in return.
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