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Post by eja117 on Jan 7, 2022 9:08:26 GMT -5
I'm in shock as to how horrible Udoka is.
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Post by meangreen on Jan 7, 2022 15:08:19 GMT -5
Happy New Year everyone! Eja, I was thinking the same thing and couldn't agree w/you more about the coach. When they hired Udoka I wasn't at all impressed. I personally think a good part of his hiring was political correctness in action. I know the team was under scrutiny during the hiring process to hire a minority head coach in lite of the city's history w/prejudice & racism. The fact of the matter is a lot of teams in a lot of towns have that same stigma and to hire a coach based where that factors in is foolish to me. At least when they hired Brad he'd taken a pretty much small program and put it on the map w/national prominence. You could also see his vision working out in plays he'd draw up out of time outs, the consistency in D and taking care of the rock. Just about everything you don't see in this coach. Udoka's claim to fame is that he coach under Popovich. I'll tell you this E. It's going to be even harder to fire him no matter how bad he is because of the same political correctness. It'll be: "Boston's still a racist city because they fired Udoka after only one yr." Covid will be a big excuse along w/a bunch of others. The fact is has gone steadily downhill ever since he took over and it's not looking good the rest of the way...
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Post by jmost on Jan 7, 2022 16:26:43 GMT -5
I don't believe there is any actual evidence that Udoka was hired because of political correctness. That's pure speculation and it's pretty insulting to him, and to Brad. Udoka came with high recommendation from Pop, not just a history of having worked for him, and a good relationship with and high praise from several Celtics who played in the Olympics. Reports during the hiring process indicated that he was very impressive. How bout we give Brad the benefit of the doubt that he hired the guy he thought would do the best job for the Celtics. He may turn out to be a bad hire, but that's another story.
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Post by meangreen on Jan 7, 2022 18:53:20 GMT -5
JMo...What's up bro...I hear what your saying...But some things to consider. Pop & the Cs who played under him during the Olympics aren't going to come out & put Udoka on blast. I mean what would you expect them to say when question about Udoka? It's rare & few and far between for a guy in Pop's position to come out and say don't hire this guy or give him any kind of shade when that guy is being considered for a head coaching job. I would expect nothing less from the Cs who played under him during the Olympics. They aren't going to come out & say we don't like him. They probably had a great relationship during the Olympics & he probably was impressive w/that coaching staff & talent. Plus I'm sure he & Brad can talk hoops all day & he can impress him too. You'd almost have to really be incompetent if you couldn't talk a good game after having some of Udoka's experiences. I don't know about you but I don't know of anyone who had Udoka's name on a short list of the young bright coaches on the rise. I'd never heard of the guy 'til the Cs considered him as a candidate that's just me. Brad I'd heard of. I don't know if you remember but at the time I wanted Billy Donnovan who was also in the running. But when the team settled on Brad I was just as satisfied. I'm sure Brad after talking w/him thought he was a good candidate so I'm not going to fight you too much on that one 'cause its obvious he thought that or else he wouldn't have hired him. But you'd have to convince me that Udoka was the best they could've gotten to coach this team at the time and that would take a lot of convincing for me at least. Finally and I do say this w/all due respect. If you don't think that political correctness doesn't play its role in sports more so now than ever before I don't know what to say. We can debate whether or not how much it played its part in this hire, but to say that it had no part whatsoever is a little near sighted IMHO.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 7, 2022 20:30:40 GMT -5
I think he was hired for the reasons they said. It's why I would listen to Ainge because it gives a good idea of how he would think. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything but that's how he thought. Udoka was hired because he was who the Celtics felt was the best coach available. They wanted a younger coach to go with their younger core who could communicate with the players. They also said they wanted to hire a black coach. I don't consider that political correctness though. They did it for the reasons stated. It's way too early to judge Udoka. I think it's the players themselves and always has been. Whether the Celtics are going to blame the players is something else but it's the players themselves.
I think it's also just the times. We aren't the only team like this. The knicks hit a shot and now people want to fire the coach. This is really the exact reasons I'm talking about as far as the teachers that came before. Why players want stability and to get paid. Just the truth. Actually listening to people and the things they think.
Hey teachers leave them kids alone. Do I think Udoka is the greatest basketball mind in the world? No. Do I think he's capable sure. But babysteps with this team. I more think this team is going to learn and grow on it's own. Some of these games will start turning into wins that way. Is Udoka smart enough to point out what exactly they did wrong or communicate it. Probably not. But he's going to keep pressing them to do better.
I think people are too PC in general but that's different. They aren't allowed to speak the actual truth without rubbing someone the wrong way. I think Udoka was hired for the reasons they said. He was who they felt was the best fit for what they are trying to do. Are people going to disagree some of them? Probably.
He's not Popovich. He's from that mold but his own man. I don't think he is as experienced as Popovich or as x and o oriented or oldschool military like that. He's not going to run the team like popovich either. He's from that mold but is a different coach. He's generation x and pretty PC himself.
I don't think there are a lot of smoke and mirrors with the Udoka hire. He's pretty cut and dry and that kind of personality as well. Is he a genius? I don't think so. He's pretty cut and dry. What you see is what you get. Which really isn't the worst thing in the world. Right now we are pretty much like every other team in the league too. Young talent and trying to improve.
A worse coach would be exactly what you are talking about where Tatum and BRown would probably be like who's this guy and want out. Or not depending on on who it is. Worse or better. Udoka is pretty cut and dry. I like the hire and am fine with it for the most part. Is he going to communicate certain things like exactly what they did wrong? Probably not. I don't think he knows exactly what they did wrong himself. He's like Brad Stevens that way but probably a better fit as the coach.
I probably would have been the best fit but that's me. The internet "experts" are just as bad. Some of them not so much. I say things myself I shouldn't say but in reality how I do it and what I'm actually saying vs text is much different. I'm usually good like that.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 7, 2022 21:18:28 GMT -5
I can get into astrology too which is meaningless. But Udoka and I are both leos. Udoka is black. I'm not. We are both generation X. Ainge really too if you look at the team he drafted it in his image. He drafted a bunch of pisces and Brown is a scorpio. Robert Williams is a sagitarrius and the only guy who is a fire sign. Stevens and Udoka are Libra and Fire which are actually not a good fit with water and earth signs. They are a good fit with me. Stevens is a libra like Pierce is and he kind of weighs everything if you really listen to him. He's an air sign. Pierce was pretty even keeled like that too. Udoka is a leo like me. But he's black. He's a different person. This team is going to take time.
Tatum is a pisces which is a fit for AInge. His personality is like that too. I don't believe astrology but it's weird like that sometimes. Most of my friends in real life have been fits for me. I got bored and looked it up and it's weird like that. Ainge drafted a bunch of fish. Tatum is pretty even keeled and just going to learn as he goes. Fire and water don't always mix.
Bird was a sagittarius and his personality is much different. Tom BRady is a leo. Same thing. They are leaders. Fire signs but can be tempermental. Ainge is a pisces. They can be firey. Some of the biggest karens are pisces. Smart is a pisces but it's more defensive. Demarcus Cousins is a leo. Magic Johnson is a leo. It's more outward and offensive. Obama is a leo. They are charismatic. How Brady plays as a QB how he makes reads and finds the open man. He's a leo.
I'm a leo sun. Libra moon which is how i think internally. Which makes sense. I weigh a lot of things. Pretty straightforward though. Whether STevens and Udoka are going to be able to lead this team they have their work cut out for them. It's kind of backwards as it stands how it was built because of AInge.
Astology is fake though. Ainge always gave me the impression he didn't really want to make deals. He would look into things but the whole trader danny moniker was a misnomer. How the league is now as far as communication he would struggle making deals too. PLayers were not just going to fall in his lap. I think Stevens is more capable of making moves. But he's going to weigh things himself. In the end this is probably the team we are stuck with in ways. But Stevens can make adjustments.
This team how it stands is how I would have built it but in reverse which is weird too. Leos are pretty laid back and I'm pretty laid back but can get firey sometimes. This team is going to take patience. Garnett was a Taurus. Pretty intense and stubborn. Earth sign. BUt he even looks like a Taurus if you look at him. Very grounded to their morals sometimes to a fault. The whole Ray Allen thing. Ray was a Cancer at water sign. Earth and Water are a good mix but if you really saw the situation Ray was being forced out anyways and Cancers can be overly sensitive and he probably knew it. Ainge was looking to rebuild and ended up trading off Pierce and KG too. Leos are different than that. Intense signs too but different. They are basically Gods and know everything and are pure of heart but can get stabbed in the back. Tom BRady and deflategate was that. Jordan is an aquarius. BilL Russell is an aquarius. Lebron capricorn. It all makes sense to me.
Our team right now has an air sign-Brad Stevens and a fire sign-Udoka as our leadership. When all our players are water signs and one fire sign RObert Williams who struggled showing up on time. Fire and Air go good together. Water and Earth go good togehter. Water and fire is like putting the other one out. AInge basically drafted this team. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think Ainge planned to draft Robert Williams either. He slid that draft and fell in Ainge's lap and was kind of a weird pick for Ainge. We have no Aries on this team. Aries can be very blunt. Leos aren't really that. More know it alls or can be misperceived as that. I'm not really a know it all. Some leos sure. Like Magic JOhnson can come across as that. Arnold Swartenegger. I realize I am spewing nonsense here lol. Pisces and Leo are two of the more loyal signs I'll say that much. Pisces are more practical though. Leos are more pragmatic. Both emotional signs but in different ways. Ainge didn't like Antoine who is a leo. He thought his grips on the team were bad and he probably wasn't wrong at the time. But even still. Ainge is the same way. Antoine Walker and Michael Irvin were actually friends somewhat and would get each other into trouble. Michael Irvin is a pisces like Ainge. Probably a more logical explanation for it like just the times and drugs but really.
All i know is the personalities on this team and talent level and how they mix is going to take time and this team as constituted is not the end all be all. And there are more human reasons for that. Astrology is weird though. My best friend growing up was an Aries and makes sense because Aries and Leos are a good match. My paretns are pisces and taurus. My hero growing up as far as sports was Emmitt Smith who is a Taurus. KG too. My mom is a pisces and I probably understand AInge more than he knows. Huge Antoine Walker fan. My best friend growing up fit the mold of an aries too. Very blunt. My family thought we would but heads but I would with my own family more than anything. I grew up in my best friends house as much as my own. Complete polar opposites.
Ainge seriously drafted this team and drafted a bunch of Pisces too and scorpio which fit him. Is he a narcissist? Probably. Pierce and Stevens are both libras too. Pierce is very even keel. So is Stevens. Libras are known for that. People used to question Pierce as a leader because of that. I seriously got bored the last 10 years reading the internet drama and people and their egos and ended up reading astrology. I used to not care at all about that but waste of time and it is weird. People can make you believe anything and that's the whole trick of it. No different than Ainge or Jeff Bezos or whoever it is. Lots of cults out there. I've seen it and the stuff people believe to be true. Liberalism, conservativism. How people create these things like christianity and empires like AMazon. com in the first place and are liberals etc, etc... It's crazy out there. Control freakish people. How the NBA is now.
But to answer your question. Udoka is really fine for what the Celtics are trying to do. We aren't really separating ourselves from the other teams though. I don't think he's a genius by any means. It's like i said he is going to push them to do better but whether he knows exactly what they are doing wrong in every instance and can communicate it I doubt it. He's more my generation where he's not going to be like Popovich driving x's and o's down peoples throats. Or even Belichick. Whether he's going to gel with the players like people think he will I don't know right now. The personalities on this team as it is are not a great fit. We lack leadership in general.
It really is as simple as how the stars align ultimately. The NBA is a lot of baloney that way. It's what they do with it. Etc, etc..
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 7, 2022 22:22:39 GMT -5
We are basically like every other team right now where we can go one way or the other or just keep treading water. We need to improve as far as when to hit the gas pedal etc, etc and how to get and keep leads and not get down so much. We also don't always help like we should on defense. I like what i see so far in some regards. It starts with individual defense and we need to be able to help when necessary as well. Whether they can get all these guys playing that way when they are making millions and inherently selfish who knows right now. That takes time. I don't think Udoka is overly the problem. If it was another coach with all the answers he could come in and lose the entire team. Udoka is about 40 games in to his first stint as a coach and people already want his head lopped off. He's really pretty middle of the road so far.
Rick Pitino was a worse coach than Udoka. I am a fan of Udoka because he's a leo like me and the world ultimately revolves around him like the sun. We can go one way or the other and he has his work cut out for him the way this team is constituted as far as personalities and talent level I'll say that much. He's playing it pretty cool so far although he is like i say. I don't think he knows exactly what they are doing wrong or is going to be able to communicate that. I basically did in my last posts. He's just going to keep pushing them forward. Stevens is that way too. Stevens says a lot without saying exactly what is going on either. It's kind of vapid. It's like on one hand you have this and that but he's not really saying what is going on. He's PC himself. Popovich is more oldschool. Popovich also can't get superstar players to play for him anymore. Because why would players want that when they are paid millions regardless and can do whatever they want and it's not as difficult. He basically lost Kawhi that way. Kawhi would rather play for the Clippers or in Canada than Popovich.
Even Tom Brady left Bill Belichick ultimately and went for the warm weather. Udoka is a good hire i'm telling you because he is warm weather in a very cold climate. No player would want to play here if the coach is a jerk. See what I did there? lol.
We can be Boston even though we aren't in Orlando but the next Shaq might still play here because we are a warm climate in some regard. Superstar players don't want to play for Popovich or the Belichick's of the world anymore. Or Danny Ainge for that matter. It's astrology. I don't expect this to be a quick fix anyways. It could be but I think the Celtics are in this for the long haul with Udoka.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 7, 2022 23:30:32 GMT -5
Udoka is pretty in tune as far as when to start calling the team out anyways. A lot of fans would have players traded and fired. We are at the midway point where Udoka is calling out the teams mental toughness where there is a good enough sample size to do that. Some fans probably want him fired for speaking his mind and because he's black. Other people just don't like him. Where as other people may actually listen. I'd give it a few more years before I judge the entire body of work. This team has their work cut out for them.
Nothing he has said or done is that much cause for concern as far as I'mc oncerned. I kind of expected as much as that this team would get off to a slow start because they have a lot to learn and these young players today really are not that mentally tough or intelligent as far as team basketball. They can score points and pad their own stats.
That game winner really could have gone either way. And really Tatum never takes charges, let Barrett get to his spot and Horford and Williams were right there and neither guy helped. They also blew a huge lead instead of stepping on the gas. That's the players as much as it is the coaches.
This team for so long has been scared to say boo. Udoka did rip them one after that game and put his own reputation on the line. Stevens has been talking about trading Tatum too although I doubt there is much substance to it. I would in certain scenarios too. But not many.
Like i said I think there are issues on this team that go deeper than just talent. It's not a quick fix. It could be in ways but there are things that are going to take time on this team. I hope Udoka and Stevens stick. They don't think exactly like me. Quite the opposite sometimes but are trying. I wouldn't necessarily listen to the media. That is for sure.
I did not expect this team to be a quick fix. I do think they are capable of being better than they are. Quite a bit so. A lot of this could have been fixed in a dream world the first week of the season, but when dealing with players and people it's different. Udoka is as good a hire as they could have made considering the actual candidates unless they went way outside the box.
Right now it could be a disaster waiting to happen or it could turn around. We are basically like 80 percent of the rest of the league right now treading water.
Just reading the internet too. Reminder: A lot of sports fans are not the brightest tacks in the shed and are "know it alls" who don't know much. Ime isn't wrong that this team needs better mental toughness when it comes to dealing with adversity. I really wouldn't be surprised to see this turn around. F the supposed fans who want to fire everyone when things don't go their way. They are a distraction. Reading some of the tweets too. It's disgusting some of it what they perceive as reality. That's actually an understatement. I can't believe some of the tweets I just read. It's true you can't let that stuff get in your heads it will lead to your demise. I feel bad for people who have legit criticism that get lumped in really bceause of all the idiots out there and have no choice but to listen to it.
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Post by cf0022 on Jan 8, 2022 4:59:39 GMT -5
Point being though when I start talking about astrology you know the internet has gone too far off the rails with the crazy train. Astrology makes about as much sense as the internet. The typical fan leaves these games and it's like fire the easiest target. These youtubers and tweeters and talk radio guys and everything. They are a worse coach. I'd also take Udoka over the Stan Van Gundy's and Jeff Van Gundy's of the world who are too concerned with their TV careers at this stage and were always more style over substance anyways.
Udoka might not know everything but he's a young coach on a young team. The way the NBA is now most of the teams doing well are because they have proven players. It's on the players ultimately. It's difficult to get a team playing great team basketball the way the nba is now. Luckily we have NY back to back and play them again saturday. I don't think it overly matters who the coach is. These games are going to turn into wins ultimately or they won't depending on the players becoming leaders themselves. The way these young players are that's difficult to do and coach. I think Udoka is a basketball guy first and foremost though and was the best selection out of the guys they had to choose from. He's not breaking the mold overly.
Udoka was just hired. I will be disapointed if they fire him this early in the process because that wasn't the point of the hire. The trade Tatum rumors are just as bad. I can see situations where we could go another direction but it's still pretty slim. I thinK Stevens will be more open to making changes than Ainge was. That much is true.
The chances of STevens making a trade or move on either front is about as low as the internet actually being correct. I can't stand it because it's people who sit there and basically look for games like this and are looking for clicks on their websites from angry fans who overreact. Sell outs. Trolls whatever you want to call them. They are exactly what Udoka is talking about except he's not. This team needs more mental toughness.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 14, 2022 17:49:12 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Udoka now?
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