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Post by jmost on Dec 29, 2021 14:09:38 GMT -5
Tatum has regressed this year. His rebounds are up, but his assists are down, and his shooting is WAY down. It occurred to me to compare Tatum, now in his fifth season, to Antoine Walker in his fifth season, and they are very, very similar.
In terms of Pts/Rebs/Assists, Tatum this year is 25.6/8.6/3.8; Walker in 2000-2001 was 23.4/8.9/5.5
In terms of 2 pt FG% and 3 pt FG %, Tatum is 47.4/32.9; Walker was 43.9/36.7;
JT is a far better FT shooter. AW was a better leader.
Antoine drove me crazy. I was thrilled when Danny traded him away. I'm not there yet with JT because until this year he's steadily progressed, and this has been such a disjointed year that maybe everyone gets some slack. But how long do we hold onto the idea that we can build a championship caliber team with Tatum as the leading man?
I just don't see it.
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Post by cf0022 on Dec 29, 2021 14:40:43 GMT -5
It's hard to compare players because they are different. Antoine really could ahve done well and Pierce really had the Celtics landed Tim Duncan who was a high percentage low mistake sort of player. Different sports but Antoine I always compared to Michael Irvin in the triplets. It could have been successful, but they needed Duncan. Pierce was like Emmitt SMith and their rock. Duncan would have been Troy Aikman.
Tatum is really more in line with PIerce although I think he's more talented than pierce not as clutch or as good in the intangible department. A lot of these young players in general just go through the motions and rely on their talent. I still say he's George Gervin. Very good player top 20 player. Top 10 when he plays his best. Pierce was that too.
We need another piece or need to play better team basketball and cut down the mistakes. It's as simple as that.
Guys like Lillard, Beal, Sabonis etc, etc keep an eye but I wouldn't break the bank for any of them. I think Tatum can be a key cog on a championship team sure. Much like Pierce was and even with KG it was arguable who was our best player. It was KG all around and PIerce on the offensive end probably.
I don't think Tatum has the intangibles Pierce did though. He's more like George Gervin to me. A hall of fame caliber player who could struggle winning if we don't build a good situation around him. Better than Detleff Schrempf but similar none the less. He is capable of being on the level of a guy like Pierce, Dominique, Paul George. Even Kawhi really. George Gervin never had a good situation around him and was very solid. Had more heart than Dominique who would wither in big games. I think Tatum can play in big games. He's not Pierce clutch but he's solid.
PIerce was a workhorse. He wasn't a protypical athlete but was durable and strong and fundamentally sound like Emmitt Smith. Tatum is more athletic but can be passive sometimes. He's a longer player than Pierce and can be burned defensively etc if he doesn't hustle. He's built like George Gervin to me. And plays like him. Scottie Pippen was a tall lanky guy but was a very good defender and playmaker. Tatum is not really that at this point. He's a scorer first and foremost.
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Post by cf0022 on Dec 29, 2021 14:47:46 GMT -5
My answer is yes he can. But he needs to mature and simply needs talent around him that works. It doesn't even need to be 3 players. We just need a good enough team and environment for him as he matures. Is he Giannis or Doncic? No. Is he Tom Brady? No. But I feel the same way about the QB the pats have now. He's like steve grogan. It can happen yes. Teams can win in different ways but need to be know how to do that. The pistons have done taht. It doesn't even need to be that where it was like 5 guys who were allstars. There just needs to be a very good mix.
Tatum is basically our STeve Grogan or Mac Jones. We need a good enough team to support him is all. And I get Steve Grogan didn't win but Tatum can imo.. He's George Gervin. That's the closest comparison I can come up with. And yes George Gervin could have won had he been on a very good team. He's a hall of fame player.
Tatum is as good as Dr J I'd say or pretty close or capable of being that. He doesn't play with as much showmanship as Dr J did. George Gervin was basically Dr J without the flashyness. Just as good. I don't compare him to Dominique because he was a freak athlete who lacked heart at times going against Bird and Jordan he got creamed. Tatum is more solid than that.
He's like a cross between Gervin and Detleff Schrempf. He's not Antoine Walker who was extremely erratic. Michael Irvin could be highly flammable that way with his actions off the field. Michael Irvin and Walker were actually friends and a lot of those stories about Antoine causing trouble were with MIchael Irvin. Not surprising.
Tatum is solid. Solid on and off the court. Was he kind of a safe pick for Ainge as our superstar vs tryign to get Giannis or Doncic? Absolutely.
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Post by jrmzt on Dec 29, 2021 17:23:25 GMT -5
Tatum could be the best player if he had a very strong supporting cast. I don't see Tatum the same way I see true superstars who can get it done even on a bad night. But a title is won by teams, not by individuals...so get Tatum the equivalent of a Rodman, the equivalent of a Draymond, the equivalent of a Middleton and we might win a title.
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Post by cf0022 on Dec 29, 2021 20:27:20 GMT -5
Tatum could be the best player if he had a very strong supporting cast. I don't see Tatum the same way I see true superstars who can get it done even on a bad night. But a title is won by teams, not by individuals...so get Tatum the equivalent of a Rodman, the equivalent of a Draymond, the equivalent of a Middleton and we might win a title. Pretty much. Right how Horford is our Draymond. Smart and Williams are our Rodman. And Brown is our middleton which may or may not be good enough. It doesn't have to be exactly that either but you get the idea. Ainge pretty much built this team in his image and I'm guessing he had some idea what he was trying to do. I think Ainge could only go so far with it though. Stevens and Udoka is good leadership and they still have Austin Ainge. I tend to think we are taking it easy early with these guys. They don't seem locked in right now or trying to win a title. Just taking their time and letting Tatum grow at his own pace. I say just enjoy it. We may or may not win but that's the fun of it. If we end up with a nice draft pick this year that's not a bad thing. Most of these guys aren't going to start hitting their primes for another 3 years. Robert Williams still gets caught out of position so much. A lot of them do. Signing Josh Richardson to two years tells me this team is going to be more of a slow burn but they can compete in the interm.
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