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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 4, 2021 18:16:50 GMT -5
Though bringing Bradley Beal here helps (and for the record, I'm not a big Bradley Beal guy), our championship hopes lay squarely on the broad shoulders of Jayson Tatum.
He has to be in the top 5 (or in that vicinity) for us to be true title contenders. He needs to become that guy who can dominate when need be. He needs to surpass guys like James Harden, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, even Kawhi Leonard, and be the next player after Lebron, Durant, Giannis, Luka and Curry.
Jaylen cracking the top 20 helps. Beal being in the top 12 helps. But we need Tatum atop the NBA's very best.
For him to get there, he needs to be able to score more efficiently, not having to rely a lot on flashing dribbling, not having to heavily rely on the side step 3s, and instead attack the midrange more, get to the basket and get to the line.
Also be a passing threat.
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Post by jmost on Aug 4, 2021 19:26:14 GMT -5
He has a long way to go. And he'll need to see many of the other guys, many of whom are already over 30, retire before he's in the top 5. And that doesn't factor in guys who haven't come into the league yet.
I seem to be in an ever-shrinking minority on this, but after watching every game last year I still am not willing to say that Tatum is a better player than Jaylen. JT gets more attention because he's the one putting up the 50 point games, and taking most of the end-of-game shots, but their offensive numbers are extremely close, and I think JB is a better defender. At the very least I think these two guys are closer to being equals than they are to being Batman and Robin, or Jordan and Pippen if you prefer.
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Post by afceltic on Aug 4, 2021 20:54:36 GMT -5
He has a long way to go. And he'll need to see many of the other guys, many of whom are already over 30, retire before he's in the top 5. And that doesn't factor in guys who haven't come into the league yet. I seem to be in an ever-shrinking minority on this, but after watching every game last year I still am not willing to say that Tatum is a better player than Jaylen. JT gets more attention because he's the one putting up the 50 point games, and taking most of the end-of-game shots, but their offensive numbers are extremely close, and I think JB is a better defender. At the very least I think these two guys are closer to being equals than they are to being Batman and Robin, or Jordan and Pippen if you prefer. I am in the minority with you. I also believe that Brown is the better player. I also have friends who are fans of other teams who believe the same.
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Post by jrmzt on Aug 5, 2021 0:00:05 GMT -5
He has a long way to go. And he'll need to see many of the other guys, many of whom are already over 30, retire before he's in the top 5. And that doesn't factor in guys who haven't come into the league yet. I seem to be in an ever-shrinking minority on this, but after watching every game last year I still am not willing to say that Tatum is a better player than Jaylen. JT gets more attention because he's the one putting up the 50 point games, and taking most of the end-of-game shots, but their offensive numbers are extremely close, and I think JB is a better defender. At the very least I think these two guys are closer to being equals than they are to being Batman and Robin, or Jordan and Pippen if you prefer. I am in the minority with you. I also believe that Brown is the better player. I also have friends who are fans of other teams who believe the same. I wouldn't even call it a minority. I believe the same. JB has more heart and just seems to do more for the team aside from just scoring. When JT is scorching hot, he can drop 50 easily, but JB brings winning basketball.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 5, 2021 2:33:21 GMT -5
It will be great if both crack the top 7!
Jaylen took a huge step the past year and a half and has indeed closed the gap between he and Tatum. Tatum came into the league with advanced footwork and natural feel for scoring, but not Jaylen. To his credit, Brown worked extremely hard to get to this level, and he's got a few more floors he can ascend to.
Tatum has the edge also because he's taller and longer, and is also a tireless worker.
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Post by jmost on Aug 5, 2021 8:49:13 GMT -5
Tatum is taller and longer, but Jaylen is much more athletic, so each one has his strengths. One thing we haven't seen a lot of is either one making the other one better. It's been more of a "my turn, your turn" kind of thing.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 5, 2021 9:35:12 GMT -5
Tatum is taller and longer, but Jaylen is much more athletic, so each one has his strengths. One thing we haven't seen a lot of is either one making the other one better. It's been more of a "my turn, your turn" kind of thing. Yeah, if there's a big knock to point out, it is that they're not making others better, let alone each other. They're still young, and hopefully Udoka can get these guys to think about setting up others.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 5, 2021 19:11:58 GMT -5
So just now I went to my fantasy league. It has a formula where players get fantasy points per game. The most fantasy points per game in the league is Jokic with 62. 2nd is Giannis. 3rd is R Westbrook at 58.
The top 10 are Jokic Giannis R Westbrook Harden Embiid Luka Sabonis Bron Curry Towns and Durant tied at 51.3
Beal is 17th with 49.12
Tatum is 20th with 47.6
Jaylen is 35th with 42.54. He has Christian Wood above him and Chris Paul below him.
Kris Middleton is 45 with an average of 40
Jrue Holiday is 42nd with 39.5
The next Celtic is Horford at [HASH]73 with an average of 34. (However he only played 28 games.)
The next Celtic is (you won't believe this) Kanter at 77 with an average of 33.34. He played all 72 games
At 89 is Marcus Smart at 30.94 fantasy points per game. Right ahead of him is Dennis Schroeder and right behind him is Buddy Hield.
It's hard for me to think of a team that won without a clear alpha but I think you could have it here. There was Kobe/Shaq but I think that was totally different. I think Durant/Harden/Kyrie is a little like 3 alphas making it work. Sorta.
But Jaylen is already better than Middleton. Beal is a very good player. This is a big 3 that can be very competitive soon. I feel like Tatum wants to be top 7 and wants to win, but it doesn't hurt him when he loses. Winning doesn't seem to be his [HASH]1 priority. It seems more like [HASH]3, but I think as these guys get older winning gets more important to them. They aren't all MJs or Larry Birds or Kobes. That drives me nuts but you still win with the most talented players in the NBA.
I also don't think you can trade him for an alpha. You can't trade him and picks for Luka D.
You have to live or die by one of the best young players in the league. I think we're lucky that Beal probably definitely wants to come here. Personally I think it's beyond wink wink. I think the only thing Beal is being a bit patient on is maybe there's a chance he gets traded to a prime location like Miami or NY or Chicago or the Clippers and if he goes there he'll give it a try and see if he likes it, kinda like Kyrie. But in general I think he's on the same page with Tatum.
I think Beal knows playing with his friend in an awesome basketball city on a super talented team for a ton of money is a very desirable situation. He knows Bron is old. I think this is what he wants.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 5, 2021 21:28:20 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that, E. Yeah, I think it's more than a wink wink too.
So what does Tatum need to do to move up from 20?
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Post by jrmzt on Aug 5, 2021 21:57:24 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that, E. Yeah, I think it's more than a wink wink too. So what does Tatum need to do to move up from 20? If its fantasy points then he needs less TOs, better shooting %, and I guess some bonus defensive stats won't hurt. He is already getting points, rebounds and assists.
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Post by eja117 on Aug 5, 2021 22:14:54 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that, E. Yeah, I think it's more than a wink wink too. So what does Tatum need to do to move up from 20? One theory is he has to get better at passing and probably at getting to the line. If you look at Bron, Durant, and Harden they're way more of a triple double threat any given night.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 6, 2021 1:57:39 GMT -5
Interesting Sabonis is top 10 (a borderline All-Star).
Sounds like the more counting stats you put up the better your fantasy numbers are. I would imagine it will correlate to a team's success too (though KAT is in the top 10 but MIN is still a bad team).
I'd love to see Tatum boost his assists to 7+ per game, and come up with more triple doubles.
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Post by jmost on Aug 6, 2021 7:21:31 GMT -5
Tatum needs to simplify his game. If you watch the other stars, you see very few (Kyrie is one) doing all kinds of fancy dribbling to create space for a shot. Tatum, too often, tricky dribbles and then takes a fallaway. He's really good at making hard shots, but that is not how you win. Jaylen is far better at making a quick, decisive move and creating space for himself.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Aug 6, 2021 13:20:24 GMT -5
Tatum needs to simplify his game. If you watch the other stars, you see very few (Kyrie is one) doing all kinds of fancy dribbling to create space for a shot. Tatum, too often, tricky dribbles and then takes a fallaway. He's really good at making hard shots, but that is not how you win. Jaylen is far better at making a quick, decisive move and creating space for himself. EXACTLY!! And this goes for Jaylen too. I want to see the Jays get half their points every game with minimal effort, just getting to their spot, rising up and nailing shots they worked on a million times in practice. Of course we'll need them to draw into their tool box when needed.
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Post by afceltic on Aug 6, 2021 16:09:25 GMT -5
Getting to the foul line more consistently will allow both of them to jump to the next level. Especially Tatum because he shoots so many bad fall away shots where he avoids contact. He needs to look for contact if that is how the game is going to be officiated and get those extra 10 points a game at the line.
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