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Post by meangreen on Nov 12, 2019 12:14:17 GMT -5
Greetings green...It's a pleasure to see some Cs basketball again...Well, we're off to a good start. There have been some bumps in the road but for the most part we're doing well. Granted the comp hasn't been killer but you can only play who's in front of you. Having said that there are somethings that absolutely have to change if this team is going to really contend for the title this yr. Let's first look at the positives that I've seen. This is one of the most athletic teams I've seen from us in I don't know how long. Guys like JG, RW, and JB are high risers that can finish w/authority. So much so the lob is a consistent part of our offense now. This team still plays tough, good, D. I like the fact that they don't turn the ball over a ton & the chemistry on this team is obviously better than it was last yr. IMHO there's still some work to do for us to seriously contend for a title...
We have to improve the front court. No if's, and's, or but's. Theis, RW, Canter, Williams have been holing the fort but it will only last for so long. Injuries will happen. We've survived w/Kanter out but who knows if that will be a nagging injury plus w/Theis a little nicked we could be very thin in the front court. Plus we don't rebound the ball that great as it is. There's no way we're going to contend for a title unless we can rebound the ball consistently especially on D. Our shooting and D have masked some of that but I don't think we'll be able to shoot that well that long to overcome our rebounding. I said to some friends of mine the yr before Rozier's contract ran out I would've traded him for Bobby Portis who would've been just what we needed and I hear rumors of this Steven Addams deal. I saw the thread putting the question forward asking about the idea of including Smart in a deal. Eh, I'm against giving up Smart he's a valuable piece for us but Hayward contract and resurgence make him a viable asset. But these flaws in the team will hinder us at different times of the season and most definitely in the playoffs unless addressed...
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 12, 2019 13:32:38 GMT -5
Scal agrees with you, that we are a (good) big man away from contention.
And I agree with the both of you. Our chances greatly increase with the presence of board-gobbling, all-around defensive big.
Marc Gasol would be more than adequate, but quite expensive (and TOR’s not currently selling anyways).
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 12, 2019 14:47:29 GMT -5
Ok, here’s a question for you, MeanGreen, and for all.
What would RWill have to show you to convince you he is a championship caliber starting Center?
And I don’t mean name particular stats — during the course of a game, what things does he need to be doing right that’ll give you confidence we do not need to trade for an upgrade at the 5?
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Post by meangreen on Nov 12, 2019 16:49:17 GMT -5
Good to hear from you DM...Good question...What I would need to see from RW is the ability to keep teams/big men honest. What I mean by that is I need to see that he can hold his own vs some of the premier big men in the league. I'm taking about Embiid, KAT, & AD. Can he defend vs them one on one and can he make them defend him. RW has already shown he can block a shot or two but can he play man on man D vs any of those guys? Banes/Horford were very good at making Embiid work for everything he got. He might still get his but it wasn't as effective nor efficient and in some cases threw him off his gm completely because they made him work so hard for his shots. The knock on Embiid is his conditioning and his phyche can be fragile in tough situations and he can evaporate. Banes/Horford were great at that. Embiid was bigger, stronger, & better but Banes/Horford were physical & crafty in their D on him to the point where we rarely had to double him. Al in particular could score & open the O for us. He'd draw Embiid out of the lane by making shots and our Fs & Gs would have room to operate. So I'd need to see his D vs the other big guys and the ability to score in ways other than the lob. I'd need around 15/10 from him on a consistent basis. Btw I'm not a fan of Gasol, I think he's washed.
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Post by eja117 on Nov 13, 2019 8:02:06 GMT -5
I hold out a certain amount of hope for Tacko F and also I think R Will is getting better
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 15, 2019 13:21:18 GMT -5
With RWill and Theis out the other game, we turned in one of our worst defensive games of this young season (gave up 133 pts to the lowly Wiz).
Goes to show us RWill’s emergence on defense. He’s getting consistent minutes (though not a whole lot), and producing results (don’t have the numbers, but I read he’s statistically one of the highest rated defenders on the team).
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Post by Roadrunner on Nov 15, 2019 19:04:12 GMT -5
With RWill and Theis out the other game, we turned in one of our worst defensive games of this young season (gave up 133 pts to the lowly Wiz). Goes to show us RWill’s emergence on defense. He’s getting consistent minutes (though not a whole lot), and producing results (don’t have the numbers, but I read he’s statistically one of the highest rated defenders on the team). I thought BOS got up on WAS, and was fixtated on Gino time!
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Post by meangreen on Nov 16, 2019 10:46:46 GMT -5
RR! E!...What's going on?...Good to hear from you both...We saw a small glimpse of what I was talking about in the GS gm. We weren't shooting the ball well early and our D was suspect. Fortunately we were able to tighten up the D and start to make shots, Kemba in particular down the stretch. But w/o any real consistent inside presence (refer back to my 2nd post) we're going to see this play out again and very possibly w/a different result...
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Post by runrondo on Nov 16, 2019 13:36:31 GMT -5
Well if Smart keeps defending bigs the way he is we might have our own little "death" lineup that GS had with Draymond. I agree, though, that I don't think we can get away without a big unless Kanter really gets healthy and RWill and Grant can step up even more.
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Post by meangreen on Nov 17, 2019 18:04:35 GMT -5
This won't be the first time we see this play out fellas so remember it...If we'd have played Philly, LAL, Mil, etc we would've lost by 20 plus today. I thought that Brad was trying to limit minutes knowing he was on a back 2 back and I'm fine w/that. Though IMHO I don't think RW got enough minutes today. But still, you let a guy get 30 plus on you in like 3 of the last 4. Knowing that we don't rebound on the defensive end well this is a killer you know why? Because we didn't rebound the ball well again on D today. I must've counted at least 3-5 possessions in a row where we gave up O boards. Granted the total O boards for both teams was 10 but when you're giving up 30 plus to a guy that means your D is struggling which compounds your problems. It's not looking good tomorrow when we have to face the big man from down under...
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Post by runrondo on Nov 17, 2019 21:29:13 GMT -5
You lost me when you said we would have lost by 20+ today to LAL, Philly, or MIL. You can't just take a performance on any given night and extrapolate to a different game against a different team. The funny thing is even if we did try to do that you could point to the fact that we almost got out of there with a win and Smart's 2/16 shooting while the night before LAL only beat them by 2 points because of a bad call that the NBA admitted should've been a Lebron offensive foul. Not exactly a 20+ gap.
We out-rebounded them 46-45 and the offensive rebound totals were 10-10. Hield was 7/12 from 3 so not sure our D was terrible by any means just because one guy got 30+. Sometimes a guy makes shots. They scored 100 points as a team so it's not like they exactly scorched us. Your original point for this thread is true and valid, but not sure this loss was a good example to re-iterate your point.
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Post by meangreen on Nov 17, 2019 23:08:57 GMT -5
Rondo!!! Hey...Good stuff...I'll humbly disagree somewhat though...LAL & the Cs are tops in the league record/winning streaks. So we're going to get the best teams can throw at us. Just because LAL only beat them by a bad call doesn't mean those they or the other teams wouldn't have blown us out (ok maybe not Mil). Sac was up for that gm just like they were for us and we were down double digits until we started making shots & clamping down on D a little. I won't fight you too much on Smart. I wish all our guys would drive to the hole more when the 3 isn't falling the after the 1st 2-3 shots. That's the league though. In Smart's defense though some of those shots were wide open & the the play to make he just didn't make the shots, but I get where you're coming from there. As far as our D it'd be different if Buddy was the only guy that lit us up or was the only one in a while. We've had a guy score 30 plus vs us the last 3-4 on teams that are a little above 500 or worse. I should have been more clear about the rebounding. I was mainly taking from the bigs/4-5 spots. Your numbers on the boards are right but they had 2 in their front court w/double digit board nights. If it wasn't for JB's 8 the diff would've been more. Teams w/formidable front courts will hurt us (Philly, LAL). We actually had descent production from the bigs today. Theis & Kanter combined for 24 pts & 17 boards vs a team w/o any real threat in the middle. The problem is that Theis had 4 fouls cause he actually can/tries to play a little D & Kanter only 1. Vs teams w/any kind of front court Thies is risking foul trouble its been his history & Kanter is going to be a liability. Yes we had a chance to win still I agree but vs better teams its not just the boards its total production points/boards/fouls/defensive presence from the 5 spot we have to overcome. The only way we can do that is what my original point was & what we didn't see in this gm in regards to D & boarding from bigs. I don't think we can continue to play that good a D AND shoot the ball well consistently to overcome the lack of a threat at in the middle to beat those teams...
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Post by runrondo on Nov 19, 2019 8:40:43 GMT -5
LAL & the Cs are tops in the league record/winning streaks. So we're going to get the best teams can throw at us. Just because LAL only beat them by a bad call doesn't mean those they or the other teams wouldn't have blown us out (ok maybe not Mil). It's all hypotheticals and guesswork which was my point...The 20+ proclamation made you look more like a Skip Bayless which, for me, lessened your overall point. Taking our below average performance against SAC and saying we'd lose to an average performance from Philly is akin to saying "if we play bad we'll lose" which really doesn't mean much at all. Again, your concern about the frontcourt is well-warranted and on point...I just didn't see how that SAC game drove home that point considering how we lost (slow start again finally coming back to bite us, held them to 99, rebounded well enough, Buddy shot lights out from 3).
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Post by jhvos7979 on Nov 20, 2019 8:16:49 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that Kanter isn't performing at higher level to warrant bigger minutes which is the key why some of the numbers are down at Center position. I don't see any short-term solution through trade that would get this team an bonafide starting center as the cost would be way too high for my likeing i.e. moving Hayward/Smart as I value the perimeter defense/offensive flow over the rebounding need. It's in Celtics best interest to keep investing in RWIII development in hope he does become a starting center. It might not be this season but, I feel confident that RWIII will get there.
Also, can the celtics trade for Baynes this season? I can't remember what the rule is for reacquiring former players within the same season.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Nov 20, 2019 13:06:31 GMT -5
I think Kanter’s minutes are determined, not by how well he’s playing, but more by matchups. That’s why some games he’ll play solid minutes, sometimes he’ll barely get off the bench. Same with GWill and I think even RWill. We know the 5 guys who will play the bulk of the minutes — the rest Brad will play based off of matchups.
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