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Post by jmost on Mar 31, 2019 6:55:56 GMT -5
Fourth or fifth place, no consistency on either end, lack of mental toughness, can't stop scoring guards from killing us - the list goes on. We just haven't been very good this year. For me it was very possibly the most disappointing year in my many years as a Celtics fan, at least for the regular season. The thing I've been asking myself is "were we ever really that good, or was last year's trip to the ECF and one quarter of bad shooting away from the NBA Finals more a function of how bad the EC was last year than a reflection of a super team in the making once Kyrie and Gordon were back for this season?" I know the story line has been that it's been tough for Brown, Tatum and Rozier to step back from having to lead the team last Spring to taking a back seat to Kyrie this season, and I have to agree that that's a part of what's been happening. But there's gotta be more than that. Rozier just is a different player coming off the bench. Tatum seems to have spent most of his Summer working on fancy moves and difficult shots - with the one exception that he can now finish with his left hand. I think Brown has continued to make steady but slow progress. These guys should all have come back noticeably better and they just haven't. Is is just lack of opportunity? I don't think so, at least for JB and JT. Have they had their motivation sucked away by the Anthony Davis talk and the assumption that one or all of them are going to be traded away in July? Possibly, but shouldn't they be able to play hard wherever they are for however long they're there? It's mystifying to me. Maybe we overrated Tatum because he did so much as a rookie. Maybe these guys played well when there was no pressure - no one expecting them to win with GH, KI (and Theis) out for the '18 playoffs - and fell off when the expectations rose. Maybe they just were never as good as we thought.
A fully recovered, and consistently excellent Hayward obviously would help. Maybe a lot. But I believe there is something wrong with this group that GH alone can't fix, and whether or not it's a trade for AD, I think Danny has to shake things up this Summer.
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Post by runrondo on Mar 31, 2019 8:30:19 GMT -5
I think I had a post where I questioned if we were that talented or if it was us salivating over "potential" (just me being cynical). I think our issue is we are have really good depth in average/good players. Problem is, depth isn't what wins - talent does and I don't think we have it currently.
- The only true star we have is Kyrie.
- Horford is maybe a borderline all-star and is a good player (although another year older).
The rest are nothing currently (but young and full of potential or recovering from injury).
Is that enough to be considered a good team when others have multiple all-stars or multiple top 10 players in the NBA?
Tatum and Brown are not all-stars yet and I think people assumed they were just because they looked good last year and our young. They may never be considering they had trouble this year which really makes no sense. Life should be easier for Brown to get buckets and yet he stands around and looks dejected half of the time.
I never believed in Rozier being more than a good scorer off the bench, but some people thought he was showing great potential too.
Hayward may return back to form but he was never a star - just an all-star (although him being himself would obviously solve most of our issues - question is, can we assume he'll get back there?)
It doesn't seem like much if I go down the lineup. I think we should package whatever "potential" package we can offer (including tatum or brown) to get Davis (who is a star) to pair with Kyrie (if he stays). Talent wins, not depth. The warriors continually just patch their bench with good character guys who work hard and it pays off when the playoff rotations cut down.
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Post by jmost on Mar 31, 2019 9:12:36 GMT -5
The rule of thumb in the NBA has long been "whoever gets the best player in a trade wins the trade", and I think that is almost always true. So packaging "potential" for a proven Top 10 star like AD makes sense - IF he is willing to stay long term. I no longer believe any of our young guys should be off the table.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 31, 2019 9:44:54 GMT -5
The team definitely needs a reset. If they don't do very very well in the finals then this iteration of the team is done. To me Kyrie is a serious issue. He quit on the Cavs and he's quitting on us and I'm not sure whether AD can change that. I have to wonder what we could get for him. If you gave Rozier a modest contract and just added the draft picks and saved the money from Horford and Morris I think we could have a good direction.
If we got AD and shipped out players like Rozier and Brown I think we could have a great direction. The problem is would AD and Kyrie start quitting as soon as it got tough?
Also.....even if we kept the kids I am nervous they have developed a terrible habit and that Brad has allowed it, and that's laziness. This team loves jacking up threes, many of which are terrible.
It's not a good situation. If we go with kids we have to cure them of laziness. If we ship them out we have to hope Kyrie and AD never quit on us.
Unfortunately the league is a quit league now. You have all these players signing short term contracts with options because they want to be able to quit. They want to be able to follow each other to LA or Golden State or Houston or whatever. The league is not in anywhere near as good a place as it used to be
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Post by runrondo on Mar 31, 2019 9:47:20 GMT -5
Yup, I agree. I think it's likely Danny would offer everyone he can. Davis' injury history bothers me (as does Kyrie's), but we can't wait around forever hoping that one of our players makes a leap and becomes great.
I'll know we're good when Smart, Morris, and Rozier are not able to hoist so many bad shots in the minutes they play. We gotta have better options than those kind of shots.
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Post by mev17 on Mar 31, 2019 19:17:22 GMT -5
The rule of thumb in the NBA has long been "whoever gets the best player in a trade wins the trade", and I think that is almost always true. So packaging "potential" for a proven Top 10 star like AD makes sense - IF he is willing to stay long term. I no longer believe any of our young guys should be off the table. I have come to the same conclusion. Stars win championships and 1 star is better than 2 or 3 good players. AD is a proven star and his age and level of development match Kyrie, Horford and Hayward better. Plus on the flip side of any risk in trading for AD, there is a risk to keeping Brown and Tatum as well. Not only are they not guaranteed to become stars, there is no guarantee, given the prevelance of player movement in today's NBA, that the kids will stay with us for the next 10 or 12 years if we do not trade them. So in my opinion, if you have a shot at a truly great talent you do not pass it up for the sake of potential. |
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Post by afceltic on Mar 31, 2019 20:19:19 GMT -5
The key as said before is Kyrie. We need him to tell us that he is staying before the draft so Danny can be aggressive with going after AD.
It doesn't have to be public, but it doesn't make any sense to trade for AD without Kyrie because he likely won't stay and that will totally undo the fleecing of the Nets and put us back into the lottery maybe without many picks.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Mar 31, 2019 20:34:32 GMT -5
Last year’s team was not better than where they finished (a game short of the Finals), and this year’s team is not worse than where we’ll finish (it wouldn’t shock me if we get ousted in the first round).
But I do think we have to gut many of the main players we have now. Not enough Brad-type players — which are tough players who keep fighting, who execute the gameplan, and are coachable.
Jaylen is too moody. He plays like a star sometimes, and subpar at others, but mostly average. Rozier and Morris aren’t efficient scorers, and play too undisciplined. I can live with Smart, with a lesser role, but he too is insufficient.
You hit it on the head with Tatum — worked too hard last summer on isolation moves. I’ll still give him some leeway though.
Kyrie is not a leader, nor a #1. But if Ainge is looking to assemble AD and KD with Kyrie, that sounds good to me.
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Post by Roadrunner on Apr 2, 2019 18:25:56 GMT -5
Yes, BOS was that good, however the top 3 teams in the East got a lot better.
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